Service suspended between STM and GCT

beanbag wrote:Well yes, the backhoe hitting the line is pretty cut and dry, they more than likely want to figure out the circumstances behind why it hit the cable.. Driver error, was he given bad instructions.. Was the paperwork off etc. the backhoe hitting the cable was the result of something going very wrong.

Overtime wrote:I went to the Harrison Station on Saturday to get some pictures of the electrical work being done, you can view my pictures at http://snapshot.phanfare.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; . I took a lot of pictures and basically just uploaded all of them. You will find pictures of Con Ed workers, MTA workers and pictures of both Metro North and Amtrak trains at the station

Tommy Meehan wrote:

beanbag wrote:Well yes, the backhoe hitting the line is pretty cut and dry, they more than likely want to figure out the circumstances behind why it hit the cable.. Driver error, was he given bad instructions.. Was the paperwork off etc. the backhoe hitting the cable was the result of something going very wrong.

Let's face it, all of the above should take one day to nail down. Not weeks.

beanbag wrote:We live in a world where we are less than 15 minutes from a government shutdown.. What do you expect? People to handle this investigation competently?

DutchRailnut wrote:All engineers are qualified on ALL MN equipment, a H&H engineer will run M-2/4/6 and M-8's to Highbridge yd so all were trained.

beanbag wrote: How many of the M2s/4s/6s are even left? Is it even enough to handle a full plate of service on the NHL? If not, they kind of put themselves in a bind on this one,

truck6018 wrote:

DutchRailnut wrote:All engineers are qualified on ALL MN equipment, a H&H engineer will run M-2/4/6 and M-8's to Highbridge yd so all were trained.

If this was the case the Brewster yard master wouldn't have been going crazy to get the 2 M8's in the yard back south earlier this evening.

Tommy Meehan wrote: What could be more cut-and-dried than a back hoe damaging the line?

beanbag wrote:Driver error, was he given bad instructions.. Was the paperwork off etc.

Transportation Nation wrote:Con Ed: We "Likely" Caused Outage That Led to Severe Metro-North Disruptions

Metro-North, the nation's largest commuter railroad, is still running at half capacity Tuesday. And Con Ed says its own work may have led to the power disruption that is vastly reducing service for tens of thousands of beleaguered commuters. "A preliminary review indicates that the feeder fault is likely related to work that was performed to disconnect the feeder for Metro-North's upgrade work," the company said in a statement.

Power to the railroad was disrupted last week after a feeder cable failed. The back-up source had previously been taken off line for upgrades. Neither Con Ed nor MTA officials have explained why the railroad's New Haven Line, which serves 130,000 trips a day, was relying on just one power source. But in statement Monday, Con Ed said: "High-voltage transmission feeders are housed in oil-filled pipes. Removing these feeders from service is a complex process, which involves freezing the insulating oil in the pipe within a "freeze pit." These freezing operations are conducted routinely while working with high voltage transmission lines, and we perform numerous operations each year without incident."

"In this case, we have confirmed that the fault is located just outside of the "freeze pit" work area. In addition, the ground surrounding the work area was found to be frozen, and this unusual condition likely contributed to the feeder failure. We cannot recall a condition of this nature developing during any of our previous freeze operations."

But this time "a condition of this nature" did develop.

"We will be conducting a thorough review of the cause of the feeder failure once restoration activities are completed. The review will include a thorough examination of the failed cable once it is removed from the pipe as part of the restoration process, and will focus on understanding how this incident occurred to avoid future such incidents," Con Ed continued. "Metro North officials say it could be weeks before service is normal. Trains are currently running at about 50% of normal service.

On Sunday, Senators Richard Blumenthal (D-CT) and Charles Schumer (D-NY) called for an investigation into the incident.

NHAirLine wrote:

lirr42 wrote:The Mount Vernon substation is situated at the west end of the changeover zone. The substation feeds everything from the changeover east to the next substation.

Siphoning off maxi-bombs from the H&H probably won't end all that well. MN is just going to have to make do with what you have. SLE sets have to hold their ground east of NHV, so they can't be cannibalized either. Furthermore, the SLE coaches are restricted in third rail territory and are forbidden in the Park Avenue tunnels.

NHAirLine wrote:What happened to their power system as a whole? Can't they buy power at any one of three points along the system and power the entire thing from NHV to Pelham using that one source?

This isn't your toy train set. Increasing demand on one substation will negatively affect the whole line as a whole, and cause more outages and the like. It just doesn't work like that, unfortunately.

Don't they have their own distribution system to feed the substations? The 138kV lines that were originally used to get power from Cos Cob out to substations? I thought they could get all the power for the NHL from either Con Ed or CL&P (UI???)?

The original transmission lines from Cos Cob were 22,000 volts, not 137,000. One of the supposed advantages of using 60 Hz commercial power is that you don't have to have your own transmission lines. The substations can be fed directly from the commercial power grid.

Yeah, I remembered that the SLE sets can't get to the Harlem or Hudson lines because of the third rail issue. They really should cancel the upper Hudson/Harlem Maxi's and move the gear down to the mainline. It would save them a ton of coaches if they didn't have caches running on the Lower Harlem and Hudson lines with some modified service on the upper lines...

lirr42 wrote:If I'm not mistaken, the Park Avenue Tunnels are ventilated, as are the spots where engines on Maxi-bombs platform at GCT. I think dual modes going into GCT leave the engines on until the cab car hits the platform. So in theory they could run BL20's and the like into GCT, but then MN starts running out of Shoreliners to put behind those engines.

That's true. They are already going to be stretched thin with Maxi's.

lirr42 wrote:There is an interesting map on MN's website showing all the service levels at various stages along the branch: http://web.mta.info/mnr/NewHaven/new-haven-line-fix.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's a really cool map. But what they are doing is downright pathetic. Waterbury bussing? They already run SLE sets on Waterbury, so that should be an easy fix. SLE has 11 trainsets worth of equipment (even assume 2 are in the shop, that's 9) and they only run 4-6. They could cut the 4-car sets down to three tonight to support Waterbury and Danbury. Plus, they will probably have to cancel the through run anyways to avoid making STM more of a traffic jam than it already will be turning EMUs and Maxi-bombs there.

If they put 25-30 P32's on the NHL, they could support 12 tph... Put half shuttling GCT-STM and half running local and you've got something like half of the normal service level...

NHAirLine wrote:

lirr42 wrote:The Mount Vernon substation is situated at the west end of the changeover zone. The substation feeds everything from the changeover east to the next substation.

Siphoning off maxi-bombs from the H&H probably won't end all that well. MN is just going to have to make do with what you have. SLE sets have to hold their ground east of NHV, so they can't be cannibalized either. Furthermore, the SLE coaches are restricted in third rail territory and are forbidden in the Park Avenue tunnels.

NHAirLine wrote:What happened to their power system as a whole? Can't they buy power at any one of three points along the system and power the entire thing from NHV to Pelham using that one source?

This isn't your toy train set. Increasing demand on one substation will negatively affect the whole line as a whole, and cause more outages and the like. It just doesn't work like that, unfortunately.

Don't they have their own distribution system to feed the substations? The 138kV lines that were originally used to get power from Cos Cob out to substations? I thought they could get all the power for the NHL from either Con Ed or CL&P (UI???)?

The original transmission lines from Cos Cob were 22,000 volts, not 137,000. One of the supposed advantages of using 60 Hz commercial power is that you don't have to have your own transmission lines. The substations can be fed directly from the commercial power grid.

Yeah, I remembered that the SLE sets can't get to the Harlem or Hudson lines because of the third rail issue. They really should cancel the upper Hudson/Harlem Maxi's and move the gear down to the mainline. It would save them a ton of coaches if they didn't have caches running on the Lower Harlem and Hudson lines with some modified service on the upper lines...

lirr42 wrote:If I'm not mistaken, the Park Avenue Tunnels are ventilated, as are the spots where engines on Maxi-bombs platform at GCT. I think dual modes going into GCT leave the engines on until the cab car hits the platform. So in theory they could run BL20's and the like into GCT, but then MN starts running out of Shoreliners to put behind those engines.

That's true. They are already going to be stretched thin with Maxi's.

lirr42 wrote:There is an interesting map on MN's website showing all the service levels at various stages along the branch: http://web.mta.info/mnr/NewHaven/new-haven-line-fix.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's a really cool map. But what they are doing is downright pathetic. Waterbury bussing? They already run SLE sets on Waterbury, so that should be an easy fix. SLE has 11 trainsets worth of equipment (even assume 2 are in the shop, that's 9) and they only run 4-6. They could cut the 4-car sets down to three tonight to support Waterbury and Danbury. Plus, they will probably have to cancel the through run anyways to avoid making STM more of a traffic jam than it already will be turning EMUs and Maxi-bombs there.

If they put 25-30 P32's on the NHL, they could support 12 tph... Put half shuttling GCT-STM and half running local and you've got something like half of the normal service level...