Rule 261 and new signalling between Patchogue and Speonk

I may have gotten out of hand in this topic, and mind you's im not flareing up about going to 261 times in fact have changed and and i forseed 261 to SK an mabe even montauk one day. but on the other note on a RR where the PLs are used in 261 and are successfully and have been for many years, why go and make the branch a forigen road to your own people.

I looking for an answer as to why does the signal dept feel that changeing the signals to traffic lights are the way to go? in the long run this is being more costly to the railroad by haveing to requalify a vast number of people (even the rules eximiners) not just C&E on the forigen system wich has migrated its way here.
The real big question is and i know this is involved, Who the hell is getting a heavy pocket on this deal and Who is going to be retireing not long after this system is in place and will be on news 12 for screwing the RR into the next phase of hock?

I can almost garentee that some one is getting paid under the table here. or some one is family or has stock in the manufacture of the new signals and is doing this to get paid off, thuss screwing the other employees for their selfish acts, and dont say this is not possibly as it has happened before. in many companies not just LIRR.

Can I get a legit answer to that? lets all take a look at this from that prospective.

I do talk out of my behind often on the forum, and do get exited about nonsence, but on a serious note here, i would not be gettin lit if it were be getting done with the tools that are used by the RR and are relied on every day and are already known.

In the event im right and I find out some one got paid in their pockets then I guess I was right, then if im wrong im simply wrong I accept defeet.

in the mean time Lets discucess the aspects and indication of the new signal system, wich seems easier to learn then the legacy PL's. We gota learn them sooner or later.

My last post was Kind long, so this is short.

I hope I clarified my self in the last post, as this rdiculas crap going on internally and way way beond my abilities to change it procede.

for thoes offended Sorry to offend you, and Im just useing the forum to air our my fealings and opinions on the ngelegance that is sweeping the RR.
In the end we all have to live with some ones mistake. sadly

no one told me to post the above I posted it on my own

Nobody got paid off and nobody is making any money under the table -- at least if they are it has nothing to do with color light signals.

And no, the crews will not be brought in to requalify. They will be handed a General Order with the new aspects and told, "good luck".

I don't like traffic light signals either, but when the Company continues to offer low pay for management, they get what they pay for. And what they have now is a bunch who think that anywhing coming out of their heads is better than anything tried and true and proven over the past 100 years.

It's a sad, costly situation for the taxpayer and a dangerous one for the passenger.

Clemuel

I agree Clem. It's just sad that they think they can re-invent the wheel even though it's proven stuff. In addition to low paying management positions, most of those in management have never set foot on a train from what I understand lol. It's not just effecting the signals either. I am learning tickets now, and from what I gather the current one way tickets are harder to punch then the older one way tickets. Basically, the current tickets only have one junction point (plus the one direction designation and the one destination box), where the old tickets, like the current duplex tickets, had multiple junction points. So, the direction of this point....the folks that work high up in the ticket receiver's office have little to no actual train experience too.

I'm sure there are plenty other examples of lack of practical experience in the management so I'll just leave it at that lol. I worked in retail, so in some ways I'm used to this. 3 years at home depot gives you plenty of experience dealing with a place that has too many chief's and not enough indians.

Clem,

I'am in agreement with you on that.

and not requalifying crews on the new signals, if they don't alreadt know the aspests and indications and are put into service with a crew not knowing them clearly would'nt that caus potencial hell for the passengers if a misshap accures, is ACS goin to SK Also? and If not if a train passes a signal goes into signals track and hits, that's going to be a VERY big fair hike next year?
I would think that the RR would be legally responsible to make shure that all crews on montauk trains are qualified on color lights before they are inservice.

Can you give some insight on that, and are we expecting the LIRR to be ALL colorlights sooner or later?

A memo as of January 5, 2004 says the following: "The next stage, planned for 2007-2008 will include Babylon Interlocking and the Central Branch."

Joe

That means color lights on the central and babylon, or 261 on the central and speed control? any talks of eletrification of their doing the above to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

Simply put, color lights are universal and fairly simple so that any railroader can identify general aspects even if not versed in local road's parlance and interpretations. Off the shelf is cheaper from manufacturer, too.

I love history. but why is there so much resistance to replacing the PRR position lights? Progress matters too. If RRs all over the country are updating their equipment, someone must think it is safer the new way. LED traffic lights are safer than single bulb lights... for example. Re-training is part of any job, engineers who have mastered the rule book they have had to learn, should not have any trouble picking up a new light system. The rule book is tremendous, and knowledge of it has to be nearly perfect for any Engineer or Conductor to get on the job, and stay on the job. Give progress a chance, maybe it will be better than the DE-DMs

When it comes to signals i shure hope it's more reliable then the DE/DMs caus if its not fares and taxes will be very high .

as for progress it is important however progress and change what every one already knows verbatim? for veterans its no problem but still you cant just say heres a general notice and good luck, they are all going to need to be re qualified before someone get hurt.

Green>GO
Yellow >Slow
Red > Stop.

but add the other combinations if you never ran colorlights and are un shure and thats potencial hell. thats where im comeing from, and why i stand strong behind the PLs not only because of there historical signifigance. wich i beleive the LIRR is the last road in America to use triditional PRR style signaling(?)

Steam was replaced too, overall, buff agenda aside, diesels have improved the RR industry. Give progress a chance.

Yeah, I too prefer the "look" of the position light signals but I have nothing against color lights. Don't forget that everyone (?) already is qualified on the color lights. They're all over Zone A and the Atlantic Branch. I have not seen any signal drawings for Y-SK under the new signaling but I would imagine that there are no new signal aspects there that do not already exist in either of the two existing locations. I could be wrong but I just doubt it.

Hey Clem! Remember all those color lights on the Bay Ridge and Long Beach Branches???

How about the color light "hump" and "advance hump (or repeater hump)" signals in Yard A???

And you're REAL old if you remember the pair of color light signals near Murray Hill Station on the Port Wash!

When were color lights installed on the atlantic and long beach? I never seen them? So with montauk going to color light will the entire RR be color light by 2010? If your going to do it go all out and not half assed.

Long Island 7285 wrote:......wich i beleive the LIRR is the last road in America to use triditional PRR style signaling(?)

I think I've seen position light (not color position light) signals in the vicinity of the 30th street station. I guess the signals may be used on some of SEPTA's lines. Anyone else see these?

7285,

The Atlantic Branch has color light signals only in the underground portions between Flatbush and Nostrand and East New York to Morris Park. Sorry for the confusion there; I didn't mean the whole branch.

The Long Beach Branch received its color lights in 1927 at the same time the Bay Ridge was signalled. Oddly enough though, the Long Beach Branch got US&S Style R (or Style R2) but the Bay Ridge got triangular (not sure of make/model) signal heads. The Yard A hump and automatic block signals N84 and N85 west of Murray Hill Station were also the triangular type of color lights, installed right about the same time as those on the Bay Ridge. The two near Murray Hill were replaced with standard position light signals in 1951.

The last color light signals on the Long Beach Branch were the two home signals at Lead and they were converted to position light pedestal types 6/30/1976. I know section break signal L173 on Track 1 was converted from color light to position light on 11/26/1974 and section break signal L219 on Track 2 was converted from color light to position light on 3/28/1975 but I'm not sure of when the standard automatic block signals on the branch were converted. Most probably also in 1974-5.

The color light hump signals at Yard A remained into the 1980s, I would guess. They may have come down shortly after Conrail Day (4-1-1976) when all float operations ended in Long Island City and Yard A's importance dwindled. Any of "yooz guys" fill in on dates there?

It will be long time before color lights replace the remaining position lights systemwide. Though there's not many wayside automatic block signals left outside of Harold-Jamaica, there's a WHOLE LOTTA position light home signals still standing!