Re-opening the Central Branch: What would be involved?

LI Loco:

Seriously, a golf course and rail line cutting through can coexisst peacefully and it does, in one of the biggest states for retirees and the home of the LPGA. Florida!

Back home in Daytona/Volusia CountY, we litterally have about 4 golf courses/country clubs with active freight running straight through them. It is about 11 miles total that run through all these places and we have yet to have anybody get hit by a train, a train get damage or anybody hurt etc.

The tracks is own by CSX and is 2 tracks, with about 50-100 trains on any given day and these are regular schedule trains. And if you like it or not I say there will be a train running through there, and if I have anything to do with it, hopefully within the next five years.

You do know that the Town of Hempstead (not the village) and the county wants to put a petting zoo and aquarium in the park? They are also looking at some form of LRV or monorail service to enter the park and go around it as well as Roosevelt Field, The Source and all the way out to Adelphi U.

Like i said, I am pushing to reinstate the GC secondary for passenger revenue as well as an etension across the Meadowbrook into the park.

I even have a meeting schedule with the Admins at NCC next week.

Your gonna have to live with that

BTW, You do not want to fly to Austrailia as they have active RR going through active airport runways.

NIMBYkiller wrote:LI Loco:
all those problems can be easily solved. The walkway can just be bridged over the tracks. As for the main road that passes through, would it really be much of a problem if that had a grade crossing?

And netting of some sort can be put up along the tracks to keep golf balls away from the trains.

Easier said than done and politically unworkable, Mr. Nimby.

Yes, a bridge could be constructed but I assure you it would a real hardship for the people who have to use it. Many golfers are elderly. Climbing stairs is painful for many of them. Do you propose elevators?

What about getting golf carts across the tracks? Do you have any idea how far back a ramp would have to start in order to have a reasonable grade?

Yes, you could erect netting along the ROW, but unless you use very fine netting - i.e. less than 1 inch - balls are going to come through. Also, a 100 foot high "wall" bisecting the park will detract from its asthetic appeal. Just visit any driving range to see what I am talking about. Finally, there is the effect on the play of the game. When a train comes rumbling through, it will be a distraction. Golfers will stop in their tracks (pun intended) because of it, delaying play backing up other players. It already takes too long to play (sometimes six hours for 18 holes).

What you are asking for is for golfers and other park users to bear all of the "costs" associated with this rail line while deriving no benefit from it.

In 20/20 hindsight, the removal of the Central Branch was a mistake since Long Island's largest communities - Levittown and East Meadow - lack rail service because of that decision made 60 years ago. Since that time the area has become highly developed - including construction of Eisenhower Park.

IMHO, there's a greater need to provide a transit solution that eases congestion along Hempstead Turnpike, the main east-west thoroughfare through that area than to give commuters from Deer Park and Ronkonkoma a bypass around Hicksville and Mineola. I'd love to see Hemsptead Turnpike rebuilt into a grand boulevard - with ROWs for LRT - instead of the hodgepodge of strip malls it has become, but that's another story.

As for the Central Branch, we can always use another bike/hike trail, especially if it could link into the one along Bethpage Parkway, and we also restore the routes along the Meadowbrook and Wantagh.

One of my ideas was go over the HTC and build a new Hempstead stop, then the line goes south and turns along NY24 to Farmingdale, where the trains turn down the Central branch to Babylon.

It would be an elevated in the roadway and be kinda like the Babylon line.

This not only serves the Central area, but gives the South Shore more options as well.

LI Loco, what is more "politically unworkable"? Putting up netting and a walkway/ramp, inconveniencing a few priviledged retirees, or those same priviledged few holding up progress for all of Long Island? Veiled elitism rears its ugly head.

Seriously. There is a driving range and golf course next to the Deer Park ROW, a driving range next to Route 110, a golf course next to the Northeast Corridor in Iselin, NJ. What makes you think that a small investment can't be made in netting and walkways?

"You do know that the Town of Hempstead (not the village) and the county wants to put a petting zoo and aquarium in the park? They are also looking at some form of LRV or monorail service to enter the park and go around it as well as Roosevelt Field, The Source and all the way out to Adelphi U. "

Actually, that's the greenway that would stretch that routing. They have been looking at transit, but it will only remain within the hub. Meaning it'd stretch from EAB Plaza up to RFM, and other plans have considered Mineola and Hempstead. I'm hoping to see the zoo at Eisenhower Park.

As for the monorail, I think it should just run up the Meadowbrook then through the hub, serving EAB, the Coliseum, Hofstra, and Roosevelt Field Mall.


"Like i said, I am pushing to reinstate the GC secondary for passenger revenue as well as an etension across the Meadowbrook into the park."

You got some sort of petition I can sign?


"BTW, You do not want to fly to Austrailia as they have active RR going through active airport runways."

I saw pictures of that. That same line had heat kinks as wide as the ROW! Talk about defered maitanance!


". Climbing stairs is painful for many of them. Do you propose elevators? "

Where did I say anything of stairs? Make it like those ped bridges in parks that go over the highways. They are ramps. Nice, gentle slopes.


"What about getting golf carts across the tracks? Do you have any idea how far back a ramp would have to start in order to have a reasonable grade? "

Bridges like I'm proposing are present in plenty of golf courses, and the golf carts use them. If it helps any, the RR line can be sunk a few feet into the ground so the bridge doesn't have to go that high up.


"Yes, you could erect netting along the ROW, but unless you use very fine netting - i.e. less than 1 inch - balls are going to come through."

They already have netting like this in use at golf courses all across the world.


"When a train comes rumbling through, it will be a distraction."

You forget that I said electric, which means MUs. They are quite. And they already run right past lots of golf courses on LI, including Plandome Golf Course.


And as developed as those 2 towns are, the ROW is still completely clear. And that development is even more reason to build the line.


"give commuters from Deer Park and Ronkonkoma a bypass around Hicksville and Mineola. I'd love to see Hemsptead Turnpike rebuilt into a grand boulevard - with ROWs for LRT -"

Hempstead Tpke can already support LRT, atleast until Rt 109. But the Central would not just be a bypass for main line trains. It would:
1. Bring service to some of LIs most developed communities for both NYC and LI bound commuters
2. Provide a connection to the nassau hub, as it cuts right through the heart of the area
3. Provide for double the capacity of the 3rd track project

I'm sure I can come up with more, but I think that is good for a few examples.


And it will be a cold day in hell before the central becomes a rail trail! Over my dead body!!! I'd love to see a bike trail incorporated into the construction of the line, but NO WAY will that line EVER become just a rail trail.


SEPTA
-ENOUGH WITH THAT IDEA! I've proven to you over a dozen times that it, along with you NY25A proposal will NOT work. And how the hell will it serve the south shore any better than the Babylon!? Just like NY25A, the only thing possible for NY24 is light rail. It can use one of the lanes in each direction or even the median.

Oh, I agree Nimby that a main/montauk electrification is far more important than OB, but I think Port Jeff needs it pretty bbadly now too.

BTW - rail line through a runway is one thing. I know of an NHRA sanctioned drag strip in the Northeast with a road that cuts accross the shutdown lanes.

(Yes, they stop road traffic there on race day)

NIMBY again you have the same good points as I about rebuilding the CRRLI

and i can almost garentee that before the year 2040 the CRRLI will be LIRRs second main line. eminite domian and quality of transportation on LI will play a huge part in the CRRLI's re activation.

also thoes gulf carts can be tunnled under the LIRR's tracks also some times down and under is better then up and over.
im shure thre is a location or 2 where the rail ROW is high enough to support a tunnel with minimal grades.

Get the RIGHT engineers and ANYTHING is possible.

look. one thing would be to elevate the CRRLI starting just west of the meadowbrook pky, then as it spans the parkway is in climb to a 14' hight for merrick ave, then it can head back toward grade in the park but not at total grade, leave it embanked so the golf cart roads can fit under the ROW. thats just that part, i shall go out a make plans for the rest. tho i have seen some of it.


as for eletric to PJ. i so support it, but right now i say eletric to PD or SK then use all the DMs on the PJ, then consider eletrifacation.

I like your idea of putting the golf carts below the tracks. The passage under the tracks only needs to be about 7 feet high.

same hight as the 1911 span just west of CLP.

and the one at the golf course can be only 1 lane wide well just wide enough to fit one car/truck in either direction or 2 golf carts wide.

Screw you. It's possible. The ROW through the park is a walkway now. It's not in the middle of some golf course or anything else. Just a walkway."

If it was up to you morons, there would be trains running thru my front yard. Get over it, it ain't gonna happen! Instead of planning ways to cover up every sq inch of the island with rail, why don't you pull your thumb out of your ass and get a life.

Here's an idea for getting the railroad across Eisenhower Park: Burrow it through. Not a tunnel, but through a cut deep enough to minimize the visual and audible impact of the trains. Access across the tracks would be easy because the bridges would not have to up any appreciable amount. Merrick Avenue and Carmen Avenue would croos the same way as well.

Stuart

It needs to be "EL" till east of merric ave. the meadowbrook is at the grade level that a "cut" would need to be at.


and Tom, Take a chill pill man, the idea is not running rails on to your front lawn, (maby a runway for a 747, that you might like)

the CRRLI ROW is GOING to be needed by 2020 period. you cant make LI have roads like cali. the 6 -10 lane highways are not happening here, and i bet that if LI ceitzens had to chooese to make sunrise , SSP, NSP and LIE, inot 6-10 lanes wide, i bet they would chooses the CRRLI as a cheeper more environmentally friendly decission

there is not much highway building options on LI today RAIL is the way to go.

if the SOB made it to OB/CONN it LIE or ANY road on LONG ISLAND WOUILD NOT be able MY ANY MEANS be able to handle that traffic influx it would be a major disaster and would then have to be limited to LI residents only. because interstate traffic would make our roads a death trap, witch they are already becoming.

CRRLI is needed by 2020.

KFRG....do us all a favor and FUCK OFF! Your posts in this thread are useless wastes of space. If you don't like the topic, then don't read it.


MP15AC: That's exactly what I was talking about at first. But Joe is right. A cut would be more costly and would be nearly impossible west of Merrick Av because of the Meadowbrook.

Look, I have to agree that LI needs other means of movement as our rails are at their capacity, and our roads are as well...

However, I'm not sure that adding new lines to the LIRR is the answer to increasing ridership - simply because some people will never take the RR, regardless of how convenient it is for them.

Truth of the matter is this - most of the people who ride the LIRR weekdays are people who are going into Manhattan. Whether it's to Penn Station, or to Flatbush where they take a subway to lower manhattan.

People who work in Suffolk, Nassau, Queens and Brooklyn primarily drive - and those who work off of the island don't have a choice in the matter. A commuter is not going to take an LIRR train to Penn, change to an uptown 1 train to Times Sq, take the Shuttle to Grand Central and then hop on a MN train to get to Westchester - it's just not going to happen.

The way to get people off the roads is to LOWER the fares on the LIRR. People avoid it like the plague because it's so damn expensive. The state should really provide more subsidies for it, or give people some sort of break on taxes if you purchase monthly tickets for the railroad. People need an incentive to take the train (whether it be monetary or convenience) - because otherwise people would rather travel in the comfort of their own car where they can listen to what they want, have it the temperature they want, and not have to have some complete stranger squeezing into the seat next to them.

Agreed that LI roads need some sort of repreive. No disputing that. DOT made a huge mistake by constructing HOV lanes. LI'ers are selfish... I know being one of them. The chances of us stopping at a park&ride and picking up someone to ride into work with us are even more slim then getting new rails laid on LI. What they really should have done was make "car lanes" like they have on the NJTurnpike where only cars can drive and trucks stay in their respective lanes. It's the trucks which foul things up on the expressway, not the cars.

And for whoever said that LI roads will soon be a deathtrap - they already are. A study showed that if a total evacuation of LI were neccessary, it would take something like 3 days to get everyone off. Remember that living here on LI poses a unique situation that not many other places in the country face - the only way off is by crossing water, somehow.

Sooooo.. in closing, I hope I didn't offend anyone, but I think that people really need to address the immediate issues and take into mind what's realistic, and what's not. Trust me, I'm just as big a fan of trains as any of you, but I just dont see laying new lines (or restarting abandoned ones) as being a feasible answer.

And... if there is any section of "diesel territory" which should really be electrified, it's the remaining section of the old central between Bethpage and Babylon. It's what, something like 10 miles? It really would provide a lot of alternatives by being able to run MU's up the central to the main, and vice versa to the Montauk.