by Steve F45
I was going to ask, how is the service doing now that its been a few weeks? What kind of ridership is there during offpeak hours on weekdays and what's it like on weekends?
Railroad Forums
PVL passing sidings/off-peak trains
- Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.
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by psct29
To dig back quite a bit into this thread...page 20 to be exact 
Douglas John Bowen wrote:Postponed. Held back. Delayed pending further review. Subject to future plans transcending passing sidings.This past weekend, I made a complaint in person to customer service about the lack of service to Teterboro on the weekends. Today I got a response via phone from NJT. According to them, the lack of weekend service to both Teterboro and Woodcliff Lake is due to low ridership numbers on the weekdays. They say that current ridership at both stations is somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 for each station and that projections for weekend service were much lower leading them to decide not to offer service to either station. I countered that increased service would lead to higher numbers but the CS rep said "Garwood on the RVL and Mount Tabor on the Morristown line are the same way as well and we have no plans to increase service to any of those stations either"
Teterboro (Hasbrouck Heights) had been slated to be served on weekends per most other stations on the Pascack Valley Line. That original concept, or plan, or idea is ... on hold.
NJ-ARP's understanding is that, pending the resolution of other items, such weekend service will be offered at Teterboro (Hasbrouck Heights).
Is it a railroad masquerading as an former airline or a former airline masquerading as a railroad? Whatever it is, it Finks!
by ff4405
I thought the goals of the sidings were not only to increase service but also to allow trains to pass disabled ones?
This morning, PVL# 1614 became disabled near North Hackensack and was then pushed by #1616. This created significant delays for #1618 which traveled at slower speeds because of the coupled train ahead.
I would have thought that 1614/1616 would have moved onto either the Sack or Cole siding to let 1618 pass.
Any thoughts or reasoning ?
This morning, PVL# 1614 became disabled near North Hackensack and was then pushed by #1616. This created significant delays for #1618 which traveled at slower speeds because of the coupled train ahead.
I would have thought that 1614/1616 would have moved onto either the Sack or Cole siding to let 1618 pass.
Any thoughts or reasoning ?
by andy
While the sidings COULD be used for that purpose, I don't think they were designed or intended to be used for that purpose. In fact, I would be very surprised if that was in their predetermined "option" of alternatives.
While a disabled train at any time of day is bad, imagine if there was not a train directly behind it to push it (e.g. middays or weekends). There are up to two-hour gaps in weekend service (in same-direction service). I would hate to see the mess a disabled train would cause on weekend service, as the headways are already very, very tight. Let alone the amount of time it would take for a rescue to get there, based on opposite traffic and the fact that it is, offpeak/weekend.
Which leads me into a story about this past weekend:
On Saturday, the 4:20 p.m. departure from Nanuet arrived at Secaucus almost 15 minutes late (it worked out to be 12 minutes late, which apparently is under the 15 minute "delay" threshold set by NJ Transit to post it on their website). Our scheduled connection at Secaucus is the 5:20 p.m. Most passengers just made the 5:29 p.m. (a few unlucky ones had to wait until the 6:20 p.m. train).
Our train was delayed because train #2117 was running 10 minutes behind schedule. We delayed #2119 because we were at least 13 minutes late at North Hackensack (in fact, they kept train #2119 on the main line, and routed OUR train, onto the siding, to speed things up).
They also noted that:
Unfortunely, I do not see this getting any better anytime soon. The weekend schedule is not just realistic at this time, and they basically cannot operate the current schedule. The only real solutions, it seems, is to probably skip more New Jersey stations to these trains can run on time, and make up time if needed.
While a disabled train at any time of day is bad, imagine if there was not a train directly behind it to push it (e.g. middays or weekends). There are up to two-hour gaps in weekend service (in same-direction service). I would hate to see the mess a disabled train would cause on weekend service, as the headways are already very, very tight. Let alone the amount of time it would take for a rescue to get there, based on opposite traffic and the fact that it is, offpeak/weekend.
Which leads me into a story about this past weekend:
On Saturday, the 4:20 p.m. departure from Nanuet arrived at Secaucus almost 15 minutes late (it worked out to be 12 minutes late, which apparently is under the 15 minute "delay" threshold set by NJ Transit to post it on their website). Our scheduled connection at Secaucus is the 5:20 p.m. Most passengers just made the 5:29 p.m. (a few unlucky ones had to wait until the 6:20 p.m. train).
Our train was delayed because train #2117 was running 10 minutes behind schedule. We delayed #2119 because we were at least 13 minutes late at North Hackensack (in fact, they kept train #2119 on the main line, and routed OUR train, onto the siding, to speed things up).
They also noted that:
Where eastbound trains meet westbounds, it should be noted that running the eastbounds earlier means the westbound runs earlier, too. This could result in missed connections from Secaucus in that direction.(In other words, don't wish for convenient westbound NEC connections to westbound PVL trains anytime soon).
Woodcliff Lake and Teterboro are scheduled to be skipped on weekends because they are low volume stops during the week.
Unfortunely, I do not see this getting any better anytime soon. The weekend schedule is not just realistic at this time, and they basically cannot operate the current schedule. The only real solutions, it seems, is to probably skip more New Jersey stations to these trains can run on time, and make up time if needed.
by andy
Based on my observations... a few reasons for the increased delays on the PVL:
(1) The crews on the weekend are pretty new; as a result, they aren't 100% familar with the PVL. This will get better as time goes on.
(2) The crews are busy helping the passengers figure out when their station is. On the weekend, there is growing intra-line ridership. However, the on-board computers don't have any train numbers programmed that SKIP both Teterboro and Woodcliff Lake, so the crew spends a lot of time telling people that their stop is next. Hopefully transit hurries up and fixes the on-board computers.
(3) A year or so ago, NJT decided to make the Bergen Co. towns happy by "offsetting" the boarding locations so that only one of two (or more) crossings were blocked at any given time. During peak PM trains, this adds up to almost double the dwell times, especially when you have a 6 car train and for a good 4 of 5 stops, only the rear three or two cars platform. On weekends, the passengers don't know where to stand, so there is a lot of running around.
#1 and #2, as I mentioned, will get better as time goes on.
#3 will only get worse with the increased interest in the train.
A lot of the AM and PM trains are becoming quite packed, especially in the last two months or so. It's too bad transit, right now, is unable to add any additional peak service due to, what I assume are yard limits. There are some pretty large gaps in service, and another New York State express would work wonders.
I still think NJ Transit should have railroaded the towns and installed the additional sidings. I assume that would have also allowed them to potentially expand on peak service.
On Saturday, the same train as I reported last, #2118, had a perfect meet with #2117. When we exited Nanuet, we routed onto the siding, while 2117 was waiting for us. While we were moving on the siding, 2117 continued west and we reentered the main line without stopping. The conductor was almost as amazed that the schedule finally worked.
(1) The crews on the weekend are pretty new; as a result, they aren't 100% familar with the PVL. This will get better as time goes on.
(2) The crews are busy helping the passengers figure out when their station is. On the weekend, there is growing intra-line ridership. However, the on-board computers don't have any train numbers programmed that SKIP both Teterboro and Woodcliff Lake, so the crew spends a lot of time telling people that their stop is next. Hopefully transit hurries up and fixes the on-board computers.
(3) A year or so ago, NJT decided to make the Bergen Co. towns happy by "offsetting" the boarding locations so that only one of two (or more) crossings were blocked at any given time. During peak PM trains, this adds up to almost double the dwell times, especially when you have a 6 car train and for a good 4 of 5 stops, only the rear three or two cars platform. On weekends, the passengers don't know where to stand, so there is a lot of running around.
#1 and #2, as I mentioned, will get better as time goes on.
#3 will only get worse with the increased interest in the train.
A lot of the AM and PM trains are becoming quite packed, especially in the last two months or so. It's too bad transit, right now, is unable to add any additional peak service due to, what I assume are yard limits. There are some pretty large gaps in service, and another New York State express would work wonders.
I still think NJ Transit should have railroaded the towns and installed the additional sidings. I assume that would have also allowed them to potentially expand on peak service.
On Saturday, the same train as I reported last, #2118, had a perfect meet with #2117. When we exited Nanuet, we routed onto the siding, while 2117 was waiting for us. While we were moving on the siding, 2117 continued west and we reentered the main line without stopping. The conductor was almost as amazed that the schedule finally worked.
by Steve F45
you know what though, for some a new service that isn't even 2 months old yet its running pretty dam well.
by andy
Steve F45 wrote:you know what though, for some a new service that isn't even 2 months old yet its running pretty dam well.Steve-I reread my message and can see how one could interpret it.
I'm not arguing with you on that point at all. The new service is running quite well, despite the "growing pains" of the service, and is one of the reasons why I believe they are getting as much ridership as they are. They are also doing a much better job advertising it (I saw yesterday a large banner at Montvale Station - one of those large banners, not a cheaply printed sign).
All I'm saying is that with relatively few changes, transit could improve service more, which I am sure they are reviewing & considering for the spring timetable.
Sorry if it came across anything but that.
by Steve F45
andy wrote:oh ok i get ya nowSteve F45 wrote:you know what though, for some a new service that isn't even 2 months old yet its running pretty dam well.Steve-I reread my message and can see how one could interpret it.
I'm not arguing with you on that point at all. The new service is running quite well, despite the "growing pains" of the service, and is one of the reasons why I believe they are getting as much ridership as they are. They are also doing a much better job advertising it (I saw yesterday a large banner at Montvale Station - one of those large banners, not a cheaply printed sign).
All I'm saying is that with relatively few changes, transit could improve service more, which I am sure they are reviewing & considering for the spring timetable.
Sorry if it came across anything but that.
I was very tired last night while on the computer, plus my cat charles xavier was on my lap while trying to type. But it's nice to see them advertising it at stations, but that should've been done before the service started. While at wood-ridge last sunday when it snowed, train stopped for maybe 30 seconds. nobody got off and nobody got on. Conductor looked at me i looked at him and gave a hand gesture of like nope not getting on.
by andy
Article in today's Journal News:
JN Article
This covers ONLY Spring Valley, NY, Nanuet, NY and Pearl River, NY ridership. Full line ridership is probably slightly higher - as I've written in my posts, the major boarding stations are Montvale & North and North Hackensack & South.
Also, this count was taken when Transit's ride free promotion was going on, so it's possible that people from Pearl River went to Montvale to ride.
JN Article
This covers ONLY Spring Valley, NY, Nanuet, NY and Pearl River, NY ridership. Full line ridership is probably slightly higher - as I've written in my posts, the major boarding stations are Montvale & North and North Hackensack & South.
Also, this count was taken when Transit's ride free promotion was going on, so it's possible that people from Pearl River went to Montvale to ride.
Weekdays inbound (7 trains)I wonder if someone is able to obtain the ridership counts from all stations.
Monday, Oct. 29: 35
Wednesday, Dec. 5: 48
Percent increase: 37
Weekdays outbound (7 trains)
Monday, Oct. 29: 42
Wednesday, Dec. 5: 53
Percent increase: 26
Weekends inbound (11 trains)
Sunday, Oct. 28, and Saturday, Nov. 3: 245
Saturday, Dec. 8, and Sunday, Dec. 9: 342
Percent increase: 40
Weekends outbound (12 trains)
Sunday, Oct. 28, and Saturday, Nov. 3: 268
Saturday, Dec. 8, and Sunday, Dec. 9: 335
Percent increase: 25