• PVL passing sidings/off-peak trains

  • Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.
Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

Moderators: lensovet, Kaback9, nick11a

  by duey
Great pic...thanks!

Too bad they couldn't extent that siding a bit more to the north and have it replace the unbuilt Oradell siding.

  by duey
duey wrote:There are definitely some "growing pains" associated with the new service.

Yesterday, I took the 12:40 pm departure from Hoboken (1613). We had to sit on the Teterboro siding for about 10 minutes while we waited for 1624 to pass through. Then, as we approached Nanuet, I saw 1626 sitting on the Pond siding (making it already about 15 minutes late). A note on the NJT board about 30 minutes later indicated that 1626 was 20 minutes late at Anderson Street.

This is a problem clearly related to the lack of a siding in Oradell. A significant delay can build between Pond and North Hack or Teterboro, and as a result, someone is going to be sitting on a siding for a long time. I'm not sure if tweaking the schedule can fix this.
Here's todays status...

Nov 01, 2007 02:38:21 PM
PVL #1626 (1:35pm from Spring Valley)up to 25 min. delay near Anderson Street

  by SecaucusJunction
NJT better get their act together. There isnt ANYONE that is going to take these trains if they are so unreliable...
  by Douglas John Bowen
We're one week into expanded, improved service on the Pascack Valley Line. And it's an improvement of some measure even if, at this juncture, NJ Transit is suffering the "growing pains" of a more complex operation.

Given that -- in fact, even putting that aside -- asserting in sweeping style that "everyone" or "anyone" or "no one" will do this or that is, to put it charitably, not fully thought through.

Would this writer delight in suffering a 15- (or 25-) minute delay on a midday Pascack Valley train. Of course not. Should we strive for such shortfalls. Obviously not. But the writer also might remember when the prospect of such a delay was an impossibility thanks to the miracle of no midday service at all.

Lots of new NJT services have struggled during the first week, the first month, the first year of service. HBLRT was ridiculed by many for its "paltry" and "pathetic" loads of 4,000 per day early on. The River Line -- well, we've been over that on this forum; it was the victim of trash-talking from its own parent. See how it runs now.

As we continue compiling our list of good and bad things for the new service, we'll surely keep an eye on such delays, particularly if they don't iron out. And we'll remind NJT, as diplomatically as we can, that the jettisoned sidings should be revisited, and the (too many) bad connections at Secaucus Junction must be redressed. But not because we fear a minimum of anyones -- more because we want the maximum number of anyones we can get.

  by duey
My pointing out the issue of the delays was more related to it being related to the lack of the Oradell siding then anything else. The fact that I was able to take a train leaving Hoboken at 12:40 pm was thrilling, and I'm sure that many long-time PVLers, like myself, will happily endure these delays until the kinks are worked out.

That being said...new passengers taking advantage of the increased level of service might not be so understanding.

  by Steve F45
what about a siding in emerson at the kinderkamack road crossing south as far as you can go?

I still say they should've double tracked wherever that tracks could've gone. Teterboro all the way to essex, hell you could've stuffed 2 tracks from essex street north to north hackensack and maybe to river edge. But that would've raised the price a lot more and taken alot longer.

  by njtmnrrbuff
I certainly respect the new schedule, but as time goes on, I will expect better. In fact, even now, I expected better because an additional siding in the Oradell area wasn't erected. I wouldn't mind even seeing more segments of double track to accomodate some more express trains during the rush hour, especially from MN points. I wouldn't mind seeing the future siding being extended to Emerson at the Kinderkermack Rd grade crossing.

  by ryanov
I'm disappointed to see how early the last train from Spring Valley is. There's somewhere I want to go out that way, but if I do by train, I won't be able to get home until the next morning. It's a shame, because it would only take one more train (maybe at 11:30?).

  by Raritan Express
The huge gap between Hoboken bound trains in the afternoon is unacceptable.

  by andy
Raritan Express wrote:The huge gap between Hoboken bound trains in the afternoon is unacceptable.
This is, probably, the one thing that cannot and will not be changed, regardless of what they do (as well as the no-Spring Valley bound trains in the AM).

I took the 2:47 p.m. to Hoboken today - and will post my experiences shortly.

  by andy
duey wrote:Here's todays status...

Nov 01, 2007 02:38:21 PM
PVL #1626 (1:35pm from Spring Valley)up to 25 min. delay near Anderson Street
I'm not sure what's going on. Maybe these delays aren't making it to mobile devices. I'm signed up for each and every weekday train (my schedule is very unpredictable). Besides MyTransit crashing every so often, I was finally able to get them all listed... but have received ZERO advisories this week.

  by andy
Today, I had to go into the city (to World Trade Center) from Nanuet. I took the schedule 2:47 p.m. departure (train #1628).

My first observation was that there were no paper timetables at Nanuet - Metro-North or New Jersey Transit versions. Second, it is a relief to finally be able to purchase 10 trip tickets (the ones with the discount from Metro-North stations) from the TVMs.

The train departed Nanuet 1 minute late at 2:48 p.m., and we arrived at the far eastern side of POND, at 2:50 p.m. where we stopped... and waited.

The westbound train (#1621) is scheduled to arrive at Nanuet at 2:54 p.m., so I assume the meet is scheduled for 2:50 p.m. or so. The westbound finally passed us at 2:57 p.m. - when we are due in Pearl River, NY.

Below is a log of certain, select stations and any delays between them:
Pearl River - 3:01 p.m.
Montvale - 3:03 p.m.
Park Ridge - 3:06 p.m.
Hillsdale - 3:11 p.m.
Emerson - 3:16 p.m.
Oradell - 3:19 p.m.
River Edge - 3:22 p.m.
North Hackensack - 3:25 p.m.

After North Hackensack, we passed the westbound train at 3:27 p.m. (#1651), waiting in the siding already because we were running late. It appears that they assume, on average, that trains will take 25 minutes or so to go between Nanuet and North Hackensack.

At Euclid Avenue (just prior to Andersoon Street), we were held for a several minutes.

Anderson Street - 3:31 p.m.

We operated a speeds that made it seem slower than usual betwen North Hackensack and Essex Street. There was some crossing work occuring just before Essex Street, which probably explains that.

Essex Street - 3:34 p.m.
Williams Avenue - 3:37 p.m.

We proceed at usual speeds through the next siding (HACK?). There was no trains in there, either. What is the MAS for passing trains in a siding?

Wood-Ridge - 3:40 p.m.

Comments: It seems like the pocket track it is still under construction. It will be interesting to see how this siding changes the current schedule, if at all.

We stopped in the double-tracked area, after the Meadowlands construction (by the Penn Bottle building, which can be seen on the left if looking in the eastbound direction, and by where I believe the Pascack and Bergen Lines converge) between 3:43 p.m. to 3:48 p.m. - waiting for yet another Westbound train on what I assume to be the Bergen line to pass.

We crossed the Hackensack River Bridge at 3:50 p.m.

Secaucus Junction - 3:54 p.m. We had a few misconnects since the NYP train was scheduled to leave two minutes earlier. I do not know if they held the corridor train, but if past experience means anything, I am sure they did not.

Hoboken - 4:04 p.m. (approx. 5 minutes late... who knows if it will make it into the late train statistics).

Some of the passengers (and I have to admit, myself included) were VERY frustrated with the frequent stops and slow speeds through the Hackensack area.

Scheduling definitely has to be improved going forward, with hopefully more realistic running times (for on-time siding meets) and adjustments to make connecting trains.

I believe part of the reason why our train was late is a result of the late Spring Valley-bound train, which I do believe is a result of slower speeds due to construction occuring at Hackensack.

The conductors on this train did a very good job, trying to make up time. They opened and closed up at each stop very quickly. The engineer ran at what seemed like MAS.

It will also be interesting to see how service may or may not be affected with the construction of the Meadowlands spur.

There were passengers boarding at mostly the northern (Spring Valley - Montvale) and southern (North Hackensack - Wood-Ridge) stations, not too many from Oradell or Emerson. I think we had a total of 10 passengers or so - not a ton, but still pretty okay for the first week in service.

  by nick11a
It will get better, lest we forget the first few weeks of the MidTOWN Direct Service.

  by lancer
I hope NJT can get the kinks worked our in the PVL operation. It is the closest line to me and I am considering using it with it's expanded service as I now work downtown and need the WTC path.

Regardless of which passing siding did not get built, the schedule that NJT published, I am sure, is based on the line that is there, not the one they wanted. Therefore, they should be able to operate it successfully.

For my 2cents, I think that NJT should consider, for the lines next upgrade, extending the passing siding through North Hackensack and Riveredge, upgrading the stations to double track.



  by njtmnrrbuff
Some of the stations on the PVL have room for two tracks, such as N. Hackensack. It might be nice for the N. Hack siding to be extended to River Edge or even to Emerson, at the Kinderkermack Road grade crossing. There are quite a few stops in the Hackensack area, but not as many as in Montclair.
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