Italian motors

Thanks, Benny, for the information.
Ciao!

Benny wrote: I referred to people bickering about words.

With all due respect, I didn't see anybody "bickering". Rather I saw an interesting conversation exploring how different terms are used in railways in different parts of the world.

Thank you, John.
Ciao!

johnthefireman wrote:With all due respect, I didn't see anybody "bickering". Rather I saw an interesting conversation exploring how different terms are used in railways in different parts of the world.

Ok, no problem, I was wrong, sorry.

Ciao

Benny, thanks for that information about an early example of low-floor cars (I always wondered about that). The seats were ok, about the same as in any other cars in similar service.

I was away and missed the start of this thread. Benny, what a lot of wonderful information and pictures! Thanks!

While somewhat tangential to the main FS discussion private Ferrovie Nord Milano had 4 E.610s that were similar in styling to the E.424s and E.636s, but with trucks more familiar to the American railfan. They were built at around the same time and had similarly long lives, lasting from 1949 to 2010!

ExCon90 wrote: The seats were ok, about the same as in any other cars in similar service.

Surely you travelled in a refurbished coach. Originally the first series of piano ribassato had urban bus style seats and the second series was not far better. But the worst problem was the cramped seats, with no space for legs (and italians are not tall as yankees).

Ciao

NorthWest wrote:While somewhat tangential to the main FS discussion private Ferrovie Nord Milano had 4 E.610s that were similar in styling to the E.424s and E.636s, but with trucks more familiar to the American railfan. They were built at around the same time and had similarly long lives, lasting from 1949 to 2010!

Class E 610 of Ferrovie Nord Milano were four locomotives built after WW2 with a similar body to the contemporary FS locos but without the baggage room, a completely different electrical scheme and Commonwealth trucks. FNM requested the same electrical part of their E 600 locos from 1928 so the two classes had the same power (1050 kW) and performance. The two classes, used for passenger and freight services, were finally retired in the first half of 2000s.

E 600.1 manoeuvring in the old Milano Bovisa station in 1983. Photo by W. Hardmeier E 610.4 during a movement in Milano Cadorna station in 1983. Photo by W. Hardmeier The two photos courtesy of Photorail, probably the best Italian site of railways photography.

When I will finish with the FS dc locomotives, if you are interested, we can open a topic about private railroads.

Ciao

Benny wrote:

ExCon90 wrote: The seats were ok, about the same as in any other cars in similar service.

Surely you travelled in a refurbished coach. Originally the first series of piano ribassato had urban bus style seats and the second series was not far better. But the worst problem was the cramped seats, with no space for legs (and italians are not tall as yankees).

Ciao

Must have been refurbished, since I didn't notice anything different from other cars used in local service (it might have been in the 70's or 80's); I would certainly have noticed bus seats!

After the post war emergency for recovery, in which it had been compulsory the use of older models, FS was in need of a more modern and performing locomotive for the heavy passenger trains and the strong increase in freight traffic, so, in 1957, born class E 646.
The project took the mechanical scheme of E 636, two semi-bodies sleeping on three trucks, but the traction motors were the new 82.333 model with double rotors (so they acted as twelve motors); the rheostat exclusion returned to be manual as in E 636.
The resulting loco had an hourly rating of 4300 kW and there were two versions: an express loco geared for 140 km/h (approx. 87 mph) and a freight one geared for 120 km/h (approx. 74 mph) ballasted to augment the traction effort. The passenger locos were liveried in "pearl grey and magnolia green" and the poor sisters in brown as the older electrics, but quickly, to avoid problems, for the freight version was created the new class E 645. In total were built 204 E 646 and 93 E 645 divided in two series: the first one adopted the E 636 front ends with big FS letterings and the second series had a totally new styling with more spacious driving cabs and shorter trucks. Along the years the five first series E 646 were transformed in E 645 so the passenger locos were only from the second series.
In the first half of the 60s FS had to front the booming traffic of commuters. The answer had been a push-pull train made with new high capacity low floor coaches to speed up passengers movement (the so called "piano ribassato" coaches). This kind of train needs a powerful loco because of the heavy weight and the continuous stop and restart that implies good acceleration.
At the time the only loco with this characteristics was E 646 so the last batch, still during assembly, was modified to become a push-pull loco. This included a fire detection and fighting system, an automated rheostat exclusion device (that can be used only from the piloting coach), anti-slip detector and more.
E 646s took in charge the more prestigious and heavy long distance trains, apart the batch that started the hard commuters work in Milano, and only the arrival of new classes made that, because of the excellent results, gradually they were all transformed for the increasing push-pull services.
E 645s instead were put at work with the heavy north-south block freights and on steeply graded lines with frequent use in passenger services too.
Between the end of the 60s and the first half of the 80s two E 645 and two E 646 were modified with automatic coupling (if I correctly remember SA type) to make tests requested by UIC with the idea, never concretized, of switching Europe to this one.
The two classes were always beloved by drivers because of their reliability and because horses for all jobs; in the last years some passenger locos where regeared for freight and the retirement of the two classes came principally because of the crisis of railway transport and the need of new safety devices.
The last locos worked until 2009, when a ban of the railway safety agency imposed a stop. Various units are preserved and have been returned to the original liveries.

First series E 646.005 at the head of a local train leaves Isola della Scala on August 21, 1975. Photo by B. Studer Second series E 646.200 and a train of "piano ribassato" coaches waiting departure at Bergamo station on July 25, 1971. photo by B. Studer E 645.101 (ex E 646.001) is taking a long distance passenger train at Torino Porta Nuova station in 1982. Photo by W. Hardmeier The three images courtesy of Photorail, probably the best italian site forrailway photography.



Ciao

Some more images.

Second series E 645.037 sleeping in Milano smistamento depot on March 21,1992 E 645.090 manoeuvres in the snowy Brennero station, at the border with Austria, on February 18, 2006 E 646.064 in regional services livery and a push-pull local train at Berceto on August 30, 1997. The three photos by S. Paolini courtesy of Photorail.

Ciao

In the 50s and 60s, during the economic boom, European railways were thinking about new faster and prestigious services. Italy too, without having a sole km of lines passed for more than 160 km/h (approx. 100 mph), wanted a locomotive able to run at 200 Km/h (125 mph) and this resulted in the birth of class E 444.
From 1967 were tried four prototypes, and in 1970 was delivered the first loco of the series production. The new locomotives had two two-axle trucks under a single body and the four traction motors gave an hourly power of 4440kw. In total were built 112 units comprising prototypes and a testbed for electronic power regulation (E 444.005). The so called "turtles", in antiphrasis to their speed, were excellent, state of the art locomotives but were badly used; apart some Trans Europe Express or "rapido" fast trains they were often put at the head of 16-18 coaches direct trains with frequent stops. Personally remember E 444s on the heavy Milan-Venice directs, that in 265 km (165 miles) made eight stops and the locos were crying to restart after the Desenzano stop on the morenic hills incline.
In the second half of the 80s, when some lines were qualified for higher speeds, became evident that turtles were in a bad condition so was decided a revamping of the class to return them to an high standard. In the event, apart changing various electrical components, the magnificent rounded front ends were changed with more anonymous ones to comply with the new safety rules and the class became E 444R.
Apart the four non standard prototypes the class is still in service, generally used for long distance trains, but overhauls are ceasing, so what were the FS princesses are nearing the end of the career.

Prototype E 444.001 exibited at Milano Smistamento open day on October 10, 2008. Note the different shape. Photo by S. Paolini courtesy of Photorail E 444.072 with a fast train waiting departure at Bari Centrale station on May 1995. Photo by S. Paolini courtesy of Photorail E 444R.081 with a long distance train passes Pontecurone station on May 18, 2001. Photo by M. Cantini Ciao

Coming back after the bad news of the last days...

With the continuous growth of commuters traffic and the consequent progressive destination of the entire E 646 class to push-pull services, FS were in need of a substitute for the heavy long distance passenger services.
Being power electronics still in an experimental phase, the quickest way to solve the problem was an upgrading of the E 646 project with state of the art components and the result became class E 656, the last of the Italian articulated locos, that were nicknamed "caiman".
Starting from the good old project, power was increased to an hourly rating of 4800 kW, the rheostat exclusion became automatic, auxiliaries were feeded by electronic converters and different cabs were put on. The mechanical parts remained approximately the same but the max. speed, at first expected in 160 km/h (100 mph), had to be limited to 150 km/h (93 mph) because of parassite twisting between the two semi-bodies at higher speeds. This imposed the Installation of horizontal dampers and contributed to the end of articulated locomotive projects.
Production started in 1975 and, through various series, followed until 1989 because they demonstrated to be good and reliable machines and, more, from the early 80s, FS began receiving electronic locomotives that had much teething problems and needed a long time to have a decent level of reliability.
E 656 started their daily work with heavy trains on the main arteries and, in the depots, were the preferred ones as reserve units being good for every use. Locos of the last series were equipped for push-pull service and used where timetables were more tightened.
After some years they began to be used for faster freights and, when came the division of the traction stock between FS sectors, various members of the class went to Cargo, the freight dept. Some of these locos were regeared lowering the maximum speed and augmenting the traction effort and formed the new class E 655 but this was not made on all Cargo units because it needed to be accompanied by an alteration of the traction circuit, and because of the shorter life expectation of the locos due to the freight traffic crisis.
From 2013 overhauls were suspended and the few remaining passenger sector E 656 are only used for internal and emergency services.
The Cargo locos are still partially on use but when achieve their mileage or in case of big failures they are dumped.
Just for laugh: as the end of three phase locomotives coincided with the put in service of E 656, it was decided to held a ceremony where the last train with the former locos had to change to the new one but the day before, during reharses, E 656.023, the first one in service, raised pantograph when the overhead wires were still feeded with three phase current and fried itself.The revenge of the old loco!!

E 656.224 waiting departure at Milano centrale station in 1992. Note the jail coach just back of the loco. Photo by S. Paolini courtesy of Photorail. My good friend Marco Cantini has been extremely lucky. On June 30, 2016 he pictured the crossing between two E 656s with freight trains near Castelfranco Veneto. Ciao

Sad to see the E.656s starting to go... I've always liked them. Fortunately I was able to watch them when I had the chance.

Thanks again for these write ups!

Benny- sorry to hear that the 656.023 got fried on the last day.
So the Italians had "caimans," a type of alligator, and the Swiss had "crocodiles." I wonder if we are talking about the same locomotives?
Jail coach- that's a new one for me. For transporting large groups of prisoners, obviously.
Ciao