• Italian motors

  • Discussion about railroad topics everywhere outside of North America.
Discussion about railroad topics everywhere outside of North America.

Moderators: Komachi, David Benton

  by David Benton
 
Philip is correct , they do call an electric locomotive a motor in the USA. Rather strange, seeing as it lacks a prime mover, such as a diesel locomotive would have. I would think you could call it a transformer, and make more sense.
  by philipmartin
 
OK. From now on, in the US we'll call a motor a transformer. The moderator rules! :wink:
Actually, I think I've heard of the word "motor" used over here to describe other things than a straight electric locomotive; but it's 5am and I can't remember what they were; except that some GM diesels were called "tunnel motors." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_SD40T-2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Transformer: I have to remember that!
  by Benny
 
Well, don't fight. Regarding this topic I think that that the word locomotive or loco in understood by everyone and in the same manner if I write electric motor or traction motor, reading the phrase sense, you can understand what I refer.
Be quiet and wait, it's a long way to arrive until today's traction units.

PS for David Benton. Sorry but, as Philip ironically indicated, in electrotechnics a transformer is another kind of machine. It's the one the transform a kind of current in another one.

Ciao :wink:
  by philipmartin
 
johnthefireman wrote:In South Africa an electric locomotive is called a unit.
In North America, and for all I know, the rest of the world, and individual diesel is called a unit. For example, three of them coupled together, and controlled from one of them, would be a three unit diesel. To the best of my knowledge, that terminology wasn't usually used on MUd straight electric units.
  by johnthefireman
 
I think it's a particularly South African sport to refer to electric locos as units. Diesel locos are not usually referred to as units there, or as far as I can recall, in UK.
Last edited by johnthefireman on Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
  by Benny
 
After the pioneeristic era and the locos built with technologies derived from the steam locomotives, FS studied a more modern project that in 1940 saw the birth of class E 636. These locos inaugurated a new, typically Italian, concept: the body was divided in two halves that can move on vertical and horizontal axis and the undercarriage had three two-axle trucks with the central one supporting the two halves. In this manner the locomotive was flexible and the axle weight not very heavy. Each axle was equipped with 1250 mm (4.1 ft) wheels and connected with a traction motor by means of the so called "hollow shaft" transmission. The electrical scheme was a slightly updated version of the E 626 one with approximately the same rating and the maximum speed, depending of the running gear, was between 105 and 120 km/h (65 and 74 mph). They were not bad locos but a little underpowered; because of WW2 and the fault of a better project E 636 were produced in 469 units until the half of the 50s becoming the largest class of electric locomotives in Italy before E 464s came.
Being good-for-all horses, E 636s were used for every kind of train, apart the speedest ones, and lasted until the second half of 2000s, when the reduction of freight services and new specifics to run condemned them. Some units are preserved, as static exhibits or as running historic locos.

E 636.188 going out of Cremona depot on May 21, 1998. Photo by S. Paolini
636188-210598cremona.jpg
E 636.357 with a train of Swiss coaches waiting departure at Genova Piazza Principe station on July 11,1976. Photo by B. Studer.
760711-FS-09 copia.jpg
The two photos courtesy of Photorail, probably the best Italian site for railway photography.

Ciao :wink:
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Last edited by Benny on Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
  by johnthefireman
 
For something built in 1940 these locos have a surprisingly modern appearance.
  by johnthefireman
 
David Benton wrote:I would think you could call it a transformer
The distinctive sound of South African electric locomotives is the fans which cool the transformer. It's a very loud whine.
  by philipmartin
 
Benny wrote: Each axle was equipped with 1250 mm (4.1 ft) wheels and connected with a traction motor by means of the so called "hollow shaft" transmission.
Here's a Wiki article on the "quill drive." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quill_drive" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Pennsylvania Railroad's highly successful GG1 locomotives of 1934 had quill drives. http://www.steamlocomotive.com/GG1/quill.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Benny speaks of "the pioneeristic era and the locos built with technologies derived from the steam locomotives," the Pennsy DD1 locomotives of 1911 had rods like a steamer. They still had them on the wire train in New York when I first worked there in 1957, because they ran off the third rail, not the catenary. I used to love listening to them clank around the station, sounding like a steam locomotive drifting. DD1s consisted of two units, semi permanently coupled. Photos below: DD1s dressed and undressed,(talk about a simple machine. Easy to call that a "motor.")
Swiss crocodiles of 1919 had side rods too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAc0HRHc7Js" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iehneo-rfXQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6CZOPicSlM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
From Railway Technical Web Pages "An example of a traction motor with quill drive appears in the following photo. Click on it for a full size view and the part names. Various forms of quill drive have been used over the years. Older versions used radially mounted coil steel springs instead of rubber to connect the links to the wheels. Some, like the example shown here, have the motor mounted parallel with the axle. Others have the motor at a right angle to the axle, as in the the UK Class 91 electric locomotives.
http://www.railway-technical.com/Quill-Drive.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_91" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Last edited by philipmartin on Mon Jul 04, 2016 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
  by philipmartin
 
johnthefireman wrote:
David Benton wrote:I would think you could call it a transformer
The distinctive sound of South African electric locomotives is the fans which cool the transformer. It's a very loud whine.
New Haven mercury arc rectifier locomotives of 1955 made a very loud blowing sound when under load. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Haven_EP5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
  by Benny
 
In FS locomotives the traction motor is mounted on the truck chassis and the hollow shaft or quill drive has a gearing that receives the movement. The axle is inside the quill drive and this one is connected to the wheels by means of rigid arms and rubber pads. This kind of transmission is far more elastic than the classic nose one.

Ciao :wink:
  by Benny
 
At the same time of E 636, FS projected a smaller loco to be used with local trains. E 424 had only two two-axle trucks, similar front ends to E 636 and a shutter on the sides that gave access to a baggage room.
This has been the first class of Italian locomotives to be equipped with the automatic device for rheostat exclusion (I don't know the right term for it) being until then used only in electric railcars.
Only three prototypes were built before WW2 but, after the war, building restarted and finally a total of 158 units were in service with many variants in the electric scheme, the traction motors, gearing and the type of bushings. The power rating varied between 1400 and 1700 kw and the speed between 100 and 120 km/h (62 to 74 mph)
For many years they became a familiar sight at the head of a rake of old coaches and from 1986 more than 100 units were transformed for use in push-pull mode with remote control from a piloting coach in the same time changing livery and losing the never used baggage room.
Locos that remained in the original state have been retired from 2001 and the transformed ones from 2007. E 424 has been a good machine for local trains, beloved by drivers, but had to be used only in passenger services because the rheostat was not dimensioned for freight services.
Some units have been preserved by railfans associations.

A classic italian local train. E 424.087 and a train of old coaches leaves Rignano sull'Arno on February 24, 1980. Photo by B. Studer
DSC_1113 copia.jpg
A transformed E 424 pushing away from Glorie, near Ravenna, a rake of "piano ribassato" coaches on February 24, 2001 Photo by S. Paolini
424xxx-240201coglorie.jpg
The two photos courtesy of Photorail, probably the best italian site for railway photography.

Ciao :wink:
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  by ExCon90
 
Those piano ribassato coaches look like what I rode in from Milano Centrale to Varenna--the center section was depressed, making the ceiling extremely high, almost with room for an upper story, but the seating was single-level. I always wondered what the point was of having a depressed center without increasing seating capacity.
  by philipmartin
 
Benny wrote:

A transformed E 424 pushing away from Glorie, near Ravenna, a rake of "piano ribassato" coaches on February 24, 2001 Photo by S. Paolini
:
The depressed cars that ExCon90 mentions are obvious in the picture. So they have push-pull trains in Italy also.
Beny- my remark a few days ago about fighting and running away was an attempt at humor; not to be taken seriously.
Ciao :wink:
  by Benny
 
For ExCon 90: the project of piano ribassato coaches come from the early '60s and was the answer to the increasing number of commuters around big cities. These coaches were shaped in this manner to speed up boarding and leaving with a shorter distance between the ample doors and the pier. At the time FS high levels refused the idea of double deckers that came only in 1980. These two models of coaches were born for short journeys in high density areas but are still used also for longer ones. Surely making a Milano-Varenna (approx. 1.30 h) with piano ribassato has been very unconfortable.

For Philip: It's from the half of the '60s that we use push-pull trains with the loco remotely controlled. Before have been used push-pull trains with a driver in the piloting coach that instructed another driver in the loco.
Don't worry, I referred to people bickering about words.

Ciao :wink:
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