Amfleet Disposition Discussion Thread

[Jeff Smith]

From an article by Railway Age discussing the safety of Amfleet I's: https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/hi ... ese-years/

So.... scrap or reuse? New routes? Super-commute equipment use? Besides the ConnectUS uses, where would you put this equipment?

...Under Amtrak’s ConnectsUS plan for 2035, Amfleet equipment could be used for new state-sponsored trains and corridors that Amtrak hopes to develop. It is too soon to know how many new trains will start running under the plan (we know only about Mobile-New Orleans so far), but there should be enough Amfleet equipment to run several routes if it is retired from service on the NEC before the new trains start running.

Spencer also suggested that some of it could be used on non-Amtrak routes with long running times that now use “commuter” equipment designed for local trains. One example is Long Island Rail Road service to Montauk and Greenport. Those lines require a three-hour running time to and from Penn Station New York, and Spencer said it would be much more comfortable for riders on Amfleet cars than on existing LIRR equipment. There are other relatively long non-Amtrak operations whose running time approaches those routes: the longest runs on Metrolink in Southern California, and the line between Hoboken and Port Jervis on NJ Transit, in cooperation with Metro-North on the New York State side, beyond Suffern.
...

[Matt Johnson]

An Amfleet would be much more appealing for a ride from, say, NYP to Montauk than LIRR's normal rolling stock. But it's hard for me to see them lasting much longer in mainline service so I'd expect to see a few scattered about going to private owners like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7bMgqMSByU

[west point]

An Amfleet would be much more appealing for a ride from, say, NYP to Montauk than LIRR's normal rolling stock. But it's hard for me to see them lasting much longer in mainline service so I'd expect to see a few scattered about going to private owners like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7bMgqMSByU

Whip lash ride. seat belts required to be worn.

[STrRedWolf]

From an article by Railway Age discussing the safety of Amfleet I's: https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/hi ... ese-years/

So.... scrap or reuse? New routes? Super-commute equipment use? Besides the ConnectUS uses, where would you put this equipment?

Scrap or rebuild.

Think about it. If all the corridors were put in, they would be using Airo sets and Amtrak would be put in for extra sets. They may trial some of them using Amfleet equipment but eventually these will be using Airo equipment.

In addition, they'll be 50 years old by the time they get replaced with the Airo equipment. They're roughly as old as me! The trucks used are probably younger than the body.

This is where I think of different uses that would require a rebuild: Mobile office, housing, power.

Think about the latest tornado damage. Need temporary housing, and the area is accessible by train? Have these rebuilt Amfleets ready. Have one of them be a solar power bank. Have the mobile office able to stand up a cell phone tower.

Mobile hotel is another idea I've already explored. If you got a platform off a pocket track, you can roll up a mobile hotel.

All of that depends on the condition of the equipment, and Amtrak has already stated it wants to scrap the worst offenders. I can't blame them for that. The rest... is a good platform.

[R36 Combine Coach]

NYP-Montauk is 115 miles, Port Jervis 95. Both are longer than the Hiawatha (86) and the Keystone is just
104 PHL-HAR.

[John_Perkowski]

With few exceptions, there are no streamline era cars in Class 1 service. Even the very newest car is approaching 60 years old.

With even fewer exceptions, there are no heavyweight cars in Class 1 service. Every one of them is over a century old.

Amfleet is moving to the sixty year mark. Someone tell me Amtraks mechanical force in 2023 is as populated and as good as the Santa Fe’s, UP’s, or even Beech Grove in the 60s. UP could rebuild heavyweights into Streamliners. . Can Amtrak rebuild the Amfleet at 100 cars per year AND serve the rest of the fleet?

[R36 Combine Coach]

With few exceptions, there are no streamline era cars in Class 1 service. Even the very newest car is approaching 60 years old.

NCDOT fleet are the last in daily (not charter or excursion) service, coaches are KCS 1965 (Pullman), combines
from the U.S. Army 1953 (St. Louis built cafeteria lounges and ambulances).

Caltrans has a small group of Comarrows from 1968, which are converts from electric MUs, much like the Metroliners.

Most of VIA's fleet (except the LRCs and Renaissance cars assembled from UK sleeper shells on the Ocean to Halifax) are 1950s Budds.

Note the 1965 KCS coaches were the very last Class I passenger cars under private operation that were not
subsidized or government owned.

[STrRedWolf]

With few exceptions, there are no streamline era cars in Class 1 service. Even the very newest car is approaching 60 years old.

With even fewer exceptions, there are no heavyweight cars in Class 1 service. Every one of them is over a century old.

Amfleet is moving to the sixty year mark. Someone tell me Amtraks mechanical force in 2023 is as populated and as good as the Santa Fe’s, UP’s, or even Beech Grove in the 60s. UP could rebuild heavyweights into Streamliners. . Can Amtrak rebuild the Amfleet at 100 cars per year AND serve the rest of the fleet?

With current mechanical force size, no. With expanded forces, maybe. But I consider that out of the question given Amtrak's scheme of things.

Think about it this way: Would any transit or train company *want* 60 year old Amfleet equipment for use as is, just to use as it is now? Anywhere in the world? I can see *some* third world countries who could... but that's a very remote possibility.

To be honest, it all depends on what condition the shell is in. If it's still in good condition after 60+ years, it's got a chance. But if underneath all that snow and road salt have taken it's toll... scrap or rebuild.

[R36 Combine Coach]

Think about it this way: Would any transit or train company *want* 60 year old Amfleet equipment for use as is, just to use as it is now? Anywhere in the world? I can see *some* third world countries who could... but that's a very remote possibility.

As mentioned, VIA has 1950s Budds as their backbone and among the last operators of RDCs in regular non-
excursion service in the world.

Is there any other nationalized rail system with older equipment? I do recall Cuba might still have some RDCs. But VIA has probably the oldest passenger fleet of any major industrialized nation.

[GojiMet86]

Cuba has received its most recent equipment from China, it is definitely not inclined to pick up 50+ year old American equipment.

[Gilbert B Norman]

Is there any other nationalized rail system with older equipment? I do recall Cuba might still have some RDCs. But VIA has probably the oldest passenger fleet of any major industrialized nation.

Here is a Cuba topic at Mr. Benton's Worldwide Railfan Forum:

https://www.railroad.net/cuba-t909.html

There is also at YouTube, extensive number of videos relating to Cuba rail travel, mostly submitted by other than US nationals who are free to travel in Cuba as they choose. While of course not entirely "off limits" to US citizens, there are many restrictions still in place.

While there has been Chinese passenger equipment acquired in recent years, I somehow think such is "a drop in the pail" for the Ferrocarriles Cubana's overall needs. I'll bet that if there was "some way" third parties could arrange a sale of retired Amfleets, they would be welcome. But that of course is an "easier said than done".

Meantime, I'd guess the FC soldiers on with much of their US by way of Mexico, Jamacian, and even French "hand me downs". Somewhere, I once saw a video of 1960 vintage French cars built under license from Budd. They were assigned to trains such as "Le Mistral" (Paris-Nice) that I rode during '71.

[Greg Moore]

Honestly, for now, do something like for every N (say 5) retired, pick the best 1 and use it for expanded service someplace else.
Once that service proves its worth, start investing in Airo or other equipment.
But for now, don't scrap every single one.

Amtrak may, in the next decade, find itself in an enviable and for it, unique, situation, where it actually has enough extra coaches to actually experiment with extra routes without running them on a shoestring of equipment.

[Gilbert B Norman]

Meantime, I'd guess the FC soldiers on with much of their US by way of Mexico, Jamacian, and even French "hand me downs". Somewhere, I once saw a video of 1960 vintage French cars built under license from Budd. They were assigned to trains such as "Le Mistral" (Paris-Nice) that I rode during '71.

Here @ 32.00 is the former Le Mistrial equipment in service on the FC:

https://youtu.be/NtKDYSiItNQ

Really, any such discussion should move forth at Mr. Benton's Rail Travel.Forum.

[GWoodle]

With few exceptions, there are no streamline era cars in Class 1 service. Even the very newest car is approaching 60 years old.

With even fewer exceptions, there are no heavyweight cars in Class 1 service. Every one of them is over a century old.

Amfleet is moving to the sixty year mark. Someone tell me Amtraks mechanical force in 2023 is as populated and as good as the Santa Fe’s, UP’s, or even Beech Grove in the 60s. UP could rebuild heavyweights into Streamliners. . Can Amtrak rebuild the Amfleet at 100 cars per year AND serve the rest of the fleet?

Now you may be talking about the museum operator fleet. Wheels & trucks can be rebuilt. Wiring may be redone with modern electronics & LED's. Not sure about HVAC. Museum may only need few coach & diner sets. Could Amtrak sell them for scrap value?

How many museum fleets may be 70+ years old? True, they may only operate 40mph at best.

[eolesen]

Museum fleets typically don't want HEP powered cars with sealed windows.



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