Amfleet Disposition Discussion Thread

[Jeff Smith]

I think West Point is on the right track regarding a surge fleet for service during high traffic times such as holidays or for events.

[west point]

Several factors are here in play. Virginia just announced a 30% increase in riders from year ending June30 2022 to year ending June 30, 2023. Now what does that mean for LD demand for this year? Even 1/2 or 2/3rds that figure every piece of equipment should be made available for revenue passengers. Even though the Siemens cars are coming now Amtrak should not be removing any Amfleets from service. Even the NEC regionals are showing some with sold out legs.

The PW1100G jet engines installed on the A-320 aircraft family is another factor. The 3320s have been mainly on longer routes the interruption will be serious. If 200 engines are already beyond time limits that will mean at least 100 aircraft will be sidelined say 50 in the USA. Aircraft originally assigned to shorter routes will be pulled to cover the longer routes.

Many airports in the boundaries of Raleigh, Richmond, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Albany, Maine and the Atlantic Ocean may loose significant service. Until I can get an idea of how many engines are already over the time limits that 200-engine figure may be wildly different. 1200 engines are in the bulletin. It is in the hot section with no idea how any different parts. Not every engine overhaul facility does hot sect work. Earliest date to fnish bulletin is Oct 1,2024. FAA usuallly waits couple weeks before issuing an AD to allow airlines to change schedules. August monthly pilot bids can be modified.

What can Amtrak do? Get as many as possible cars into service within a short time? Will these happen? Not likely.
1. Speed up the COT&S work.
2. Fix any safety items.
3. Make sure HVAC is reliable in the cars
5. Do only minor interior work to just make them clean.

So, here is another incident where a surge fleet is needed. There will probably be more incidents in the future. This heat wave. Also the surface ocean temp around Florida is at 100 degrees F Pure hurricane fuel.

[Gilbert B Norman]

Again along with Officer (Captain?) West Point, I reiterate that discussion of Pratt engined aircraft needing to be withdrawn from service owing to these mandatory inspections impacts Amtrak operations - especially in the Corridor, where Amtrak has chopped up at least one Acela set (nice source of parts) plus an array of Amfleets.

While we have well chronicled the delays with no end in sight for the new Acela equipment, does anyone really think that the Airo equipment will be delivered and accepted "on time and on budget"? That hasn't happened around Amtrak since 1977.

One must wonder if this incident was the harbinger of the present, even though it involved a Boeing aircraft and an engine considerably larger than any on an A-320 series.

There is of course much more over at Airliners Net on this aircraft matter, and it has been of concern over there for much longer than this at present.

Finally, in about three weeks when I go overseas, "Generals #1 and #2" will be reporting for duty on a United 788. My biggest gripe with that aircraft is the Attendants decide when I may flightsee.

disclaimer : author Long RTX (GE has yet to recover to level where author sold position in such)

[urr304]

So, we have a possible need for more capacity on the NEC and Amtrak may have the possibility to add surge volume with holding onto a portion of the Amfleet in reserve.

Unfortunately, I am confident that this will get blown just from history.

[scratchyX1]

I think West Point is on the right track regarding a surge fleet for service during high traffic times such as holidays or for events.

Or emergency evacuation from regions, as the highways will be gridlocked.

[electricron]

Or emergency evacuation from regions, as the highways will be gridlocked.

Which would be great if Amtrak actually ran the trains on weather based evacuation events, but they don't.

[BandA]

Amtrak should be tasked with (and funded to) create a national surge fleet for national security and economic resilience reasons. Use Homeland Security or Army budgets. In the next few years, we could have a war with Russia, China, or Iran, or [edit] between Iran and Israel or Ukraine. Or there could be another Arab-Russian-Venuzeulan Oil Embargo, or Yemen could be successful this time destroying Saudi Arabia's oil facilities.

[electricron]

Where would you store them? In one yard near the east coast, west coast, or in the middle of nowhere plains?
Do you know how much it costs to park a car anywhere? Can you imagine the cost to park 500 unused and therefore poorly maintained cars?
Even the author of the famed Railroad Series of books, and children's TV show emphasized the need for an engine and rolling stock to be useful. 500 cars park in the middle of nowhere to keep costs low are not useful.

[urr304]

I do not know about 500, but 100-150 extra cars would be helpful. They would need to be located across the country, but in areas that could be secured. Of course, it all takes money, maintenance and would have to be accounted for but Amtrak is run like they expect the same number of people every day of the year whether its Feb.15, Labor Day or Christmas [except maybe on the NEC].

The private railroads had the same dilemma in late 1960s. When after the airline strike[s] of 1966, many lines got rid of their stored cars for various reasons including showing they did not have the capacity to add services so as not be bothered again.

[BandA]

It was very convenient in the 1970s/80s to have lots of extra, possibly rolling wrecks, available for surge fleets. Before covid, Commuter Rail was on the upswing, and we wish we had a fraction of those train yards and coach yards that were closed in the 1960s and 1970s and even the 1980s and 1990s.

[STrRedWolf]

Where would you store them? In one yard near the east coast, west coast, or in the middle of nowhere plains?
Do you know how much it costs to park a car anywhere? Can you imagine the cost to park 500 unused and therefore poorly maintained cars?
Even the author of the famed Railroad Series of books, and children's TV show emphasized the need for an engine and rolling stock to be useful. 500 cars park in the middle of nowhere to keep costs low are not useful.

Where surplus air planes are stored: Tuscon, Arizona. So dry out there that stuff doesn't have a chance to rust.

That said, I doubt 500 cars would be stored there. Maybe 200 of the upper tier, another 100-200 around various places, but the worst of the bunch get scrapped for parts.

[west point]

Funds for surge fleets and their upkeep should come from DHS or FEMA Then when incidents happen reducing train consists require leased back to Amtrak. Tuscon one obvious. Beech Grove has plenty of room to add tracks and put a fairly good security system. No storage at coastal locations or snow prone locations

.Think how the many LD trains would have been to add cars or certain whole trains this summer? If single levels no problem. If SLs just rob cars from Capitol, CNO and that god awful axel count cars requirement.

[scratchyX1]

Amtrak should be tasked with (and funded to) create a national surge fleet for national security and economic resilience reasons. Use Homeland Security or Army budgets. In the next few years, we could have a war with Russia, China, or Iran, or [edit] between Iran and Israel or Ukraine. Or there could be another Arab-Russian-Venuzeulan Oil Embargo, or Yemen could be successful this time destroying Saudi Arabia's oil facilities.

Army Corp engineers , maybe?

[electricron]

Okay, we store them in Arizona. A hurricane is set to strike New York City in 7 days. Do you really believe you can get all those you stored there would get to New York City in time do evacuate anybody? How about Houston?
What a waste of resources to maintain and store equipment that can never be placed into service to handle any crisis/
With a hurricane, you have at least a week's notice where it might hit. Tornados less than a day.
During flooding, Amtrak will not even enter the flood zone until the flood waters have gone. Even during blizzards Amtrak closes down. So what natural disaster could these stored Amfleets in Arizona help?
My answer, no one. Amtrak does not even hlve the staff to man and run these extra cars.

[STrRedWolf]

Okay, we store them in Arizona. A hurricane is set to strike New York City in 7 days. Do you really believe you can get all those you stored there would get to New York City in time do evacuate anybody? How about Houston?
What a waste of resources to maintain and store equipment that can never be placed into service to handle any crisis/
With a hurricane, you have at least a week's notice where it might hit. Tornados less than a day.
During flooding, Amtrak will not even enter the flood zone until the flood waters have gone. Even during blizzards Amtrak closes down. So what natural disaster could these stored Amfleets in Arizona help?
My answer, no one. Amtrak does not even hlve the staff to man and run these extra cars.

7 day warning. NYC from Tuscon? Two days and change, assuming no break downs. Also, NJT/LIRR/MNRR equipment would also be used to bring folks inland.

Tuscon to Houston or New Orleans? Overnight.

Flooded rail lines need inspection. Blizzard after-effects need plowing. That is recovery, not rescue, which would require a different type of consist than what we're talking about here.