ARC Tunnel - Revisited (Again)

TDowling wrote:How exactly is this going to work? Will inbound trains stop on the lower level and outbounds on the upper level?

All trains will stop on the lower level.

TDowling wrote:How exactly is this going to work? Will inbound trains stop on the lower level and outbounds on the upper level?

All trains will stop on the lower level.

cruiser939 wrote:

TDowling wrote:How exactly is this going to work? Will inbound trains stop on the lower level and outbounds on the upper level?

All trains will stop on the lower level.

I think we heard you the first time.

morris&essex4ever wrote:

cruiser939 wrote:

TDowling wrote:How exactly is this going to work? Will inbound trains stop on the lower level and outbounds on the upper level?

All trains will stop on the lower level.

I think we heard you the first time.

Hmm, so apparently I hit the submit button twice. Big freakin' deal. I don't see you getting all worked up over it when anyone else does it, so just sit back down.

cruiser939 wrote:

morris&essex4ever wrote:

cruiser939 wrote: All trains will stop on the lower level.

I think we heard you the first time.

Hmm, so apparently I hit the submit button twice. Big freakin' deal. I don't see you getting all worked up over it when anyone else does it, so just sit back down.

Maybe you should realize I was joking around and not take that post so seriously.

morris&essex4ever wrote:

cruiser939 wrote:

morris&essex4ever wrote: I think we heard you the first time.

Hmm, so apparently I hit the submit button twice. Big freakin' deal. I don't see you getting all worked up over it when anyone else does it, so just sit back down.

Maybe you should realize I was joking around and not take that post so seriously.

Maybe you should have put a smiley there to help like you just did to avoid any confusion.

Cruiser, could you please give some more detail on your answer?
What's your source?
If all trains stop on the lover level then what are they going to use the upper level for?
What will they do with trains on the lower level after they've stopped there?

gardendance wrote:Cruiser, could you please give some more detail on your answer?
What's your source?
If all trains stop on the lover level then what are they going to use the upper level for?
What will they do with trains on the lower level after they've stopped there?

The trains that will stop on the Lower Level that will continue on to New York will make the loop, and pass through SEC Upper Level and NOT stop there.

The other trains that stop at SEC LL will continue to Hoboken, as they do now.

Upstairs, most NEC/NJCL/MD etc trains will continue to make SEC, as they do now for folks to Xfer at SEC.

Whats with everyone "wanting sources" lately - everyone please stop trying to "catch" people with stupid crap.........this place is really becoming rediculous at times......garden, if you don't know by know that Cruiser might actually kind of know what is going on, im sorry dude, I dunno what to tell you......

Do you want us to start posting "sources" in MLA or Chicago-style format????

Sheesh - some people here are really starting to get annoying - and aren't going to be happy til this place turns into subchat and everyone who posts who actually know things in any kind of official capacity stop posting and leave........

Jtgshu, I'm sorry, I thought TDowling was asking about the new station in New York. I didn't realize he was asking about Secaucus station.

At the risk of you getting angry with me for asking for your source, how could you tell that TDowling was asking about Secaucus station? I've gone back over all 3 pages of this thread and I'm afraid I can't see anything that talks about Secaucus, the closest I can figure is a reference to construction under the Palisades, and I thought Secaucus was in the swamps between Newark and the Palisades. The only references I see before your reply that mention any stations all talk about Penn Station New York, Moynihan or the Post Office building in New York, or the new 2 level station to go under 34th St in New York. I thought TDowling and Cruiser were talking about the new 34th St station, since that's the only 2 level station I saw mentioned in this thread. Also I'm not sure that Secaucus and its loop track, are part of ARC tunnel, but I certainly admit to ignorance if it's clear to others who know more about the ARC project's scope.

I did not say that Cruiser does not know what he's talking about. I am saying I don't know what he's talking about. I do feel it's appropriate to find out how anyone comes about his knowledge. I don't know what MLA or Chicago-style format are, so I don't know if it's appropriate to ask you to start posting sources that way, but it certainly couldn't hurt to say "I had heard from ..." or just copy and paste the web address and summarize or quote it.

I hope I didn't imply in my post that I want anyone to stop posting and leave. I believe more speech is a much better remedy for poor speech than less speech is. However if you find my posts annoying then I recommend you not read them. Problem solved, you can continue to post to your heart's content, and remain confident that you're not missing anything important if you feel that what I have to say is unimportant.

Maybe I misread your post, and if so I apologize, but in reading it again, I don't even see TDowling's post referenced. But in reading back, I can see how "upper level" and "lower level" COULD be considered the new station in NY, but I have never seen it refenced to it like that here or anywhere in any discussion, its usually NYP or 34th St. Station or something along those lines. Upper Level and Lower Level commonly refer to Secaucus Jct, which is also part of the project, with the loop track and trains stopping there and going to NY more than likely through the new tunnels. So when I saw that, i ASSUMED (yes, I know) that you were refering to SEC Xfer.

Its just getting old seeing constant bickering and "what do you know" or "how do you know that" or BS like that - one must understand that employees cannot always simply say "oh I was talking to the head of the project and he said this" - or "in the rule book, it says this" or "the supervisor told me this" - you just can't do that. You simply can't "prove" your sources. Gotta take it at face value, and take it for what its worth. Most posters here can tell who works on the RR and in the industry, and who doesn't and if one of those posters post something of a seemingly factual nature, there is a pretty good chance that its some reliable info. But actual sources, dates, and times, your NOT going to get.

Sure, some posters here, both RR'ers and non-RR'ers alike have some..........for lack of a better word........abrasive, posting habits, but usually somewhere in every post is some nugget of info, keeping up the discussion. But constant attacking of some posters, in particularly Cruiser (I don't mean you in particular Garden) is getting old real fast.

Some folks (again, no one in particular im referring to here...) just can't handle the fact that there might be people that know more about something than they do. Liking a poster or his posting habits is totally differnet than respecting the person and their knowledge, and thats fine, but come on, lets get a grip here huh?

BTW, no one here is "unimportant"...and please don't think such, thats why this place is so much fun, EVERYONE learns something, its just getting harder and harder lately dealing with all the nonsense being thrown around......and its getting very annoying

rant over, off the soapbox........back to the regularly scheduled programing, already in progress

Thanks. By the way, has anybody given thought to the idea it might be better at Secaucus to have a 12 car long elevator and turntable instead of the loop to move trains to and from the north-south Hoboken lines and the east-west Hudson River tunnels

Since "topic creep" has brought us to Secaucus, is it correct to assume that C and D are being reserved for the lower-level loop platform designators? And that loop trains will normally use tracks 2 and 3, without stopping, on the upper level?

ExCon90 wrote:Since "topic creep" has brought us to Secaucus, is it correct to assume that C and D are being reserved for the lower-level loop platform designators? And that loop trains will normally use tracks 2 and 3, without stopping, on the upper level?

Theres no reserved track designators. Its hard to explain, but east of Newark Penn, you have tracks 1, 2, and 3. Track 1 gets lost at Hudson where it turns into the Waterfront Connection. Tracks 2 and 3 continue from Hudson to Portal. At Portal, track A branches off from track 2. At Lack, track B branches off of track 3. Thats where the 2, A, B, 3 designations come from. Does it make sense? Not really. But that's how it's done.

gardendance wrote:Cruiser, could you please give some more detail on your answer?
What's your source?
If all trains stop on the lover level then what are they going to use the upper level for?
What will they do with trains on the lower level after they've stopped there?

JT has already addressed many of the key points here.

I understand your claim of being confused. Indeed, no particular mention of Secaucus was made. However if you think about it, the question originally asked by TDowling does not make sense when talking about the new station to be built in NYC because of the very questions that you were asking, so that should have been a hint at least as to what station he was referring (although maybe not as there are some pretty ridiculous questions asked here sometimes).

I would only echo JT's caution (not just to you but the whole board). If you're confused, that's alright, ask questions to clarify. But attempting to clarify by asking "what's you source?" is not a great way to accomplish this. It puts the person from whom you're trying to get information into a defensive posture. It doesn't sound as if you're trying to learn more but rather questioning the validity of the original poster's information. As an employee of NJT, I have information on a wide array of topics but most often will not reveal the source of said information. This is for the protection of my identity as well as those of my coworkers. I post information with the best of intentions and don't intentionally disseminate incorrect information (despite what certain members might think). If people here choose not to believe the information that I supply, then that is their loss.

BTW, the loop tracks are most certainly part of the ARC plan.

ExCon90 wrote:Since "topic creep" has brought us to Secaucus, is it correct to assume that C and D are being reserved for the lower-level loop platform designators? And that loop trains will normally use tracks 2 and 3, without stopping, on the upper level?

No and No.

From the lower level, the loop tracks will diverge from the existing tracks. No new platforms are planned.

On the upper level, trains will pass through the station on tracks 5 and 6 which are part of the new alignment being built into NYC.

Also, this really isn't really "topic creep" as Secaucus and the loop tracks are part of the ARC plan. Feel free to post whatever questions you have here about the project.