Viewliner II Delivery/Production

Agreed on most points - PhaseIII looks great when its fresh and clean. When it's dirty and flaking it doesn't hide age well.

Regarding the NCDOT trains, I get a kick out of the fact they repainted the North Carolina-sponsored trains into University of Kansas colors. Carolina and Kansas are two top NCAA basketball programs and bitter rivals after Carolina poached coach Roy Williams. I never hesitate to remind my Carolina Tarheel friends of this fact.

You know . . . this actually looks pretty nice. I can imagine an entire train with THIS Phase III.

Just another thought. I can remember back to when the Twilight Shoreliner had (see-through) graphics that actually covered all the windows. Imagine an entire train with a continuous stripe not interrupted by any windows! Unfortunately, this growing practice (on both trains & buses) was discontinued after 9/11 when authorities realized that it would not be possible to see any bad guys through the windows in case of possible terrorism.

Those P42's look sharp, I will admit. I think I like that color scheme on the locomotives better than the cars.

(Edit: 1 P42, 1 P40 as I remembered the second unit is #822)

bostontrainguy wrote:You know . . . this actually looks pretty nice. I can imagine an entire train with THIS Phase III.

Just another thought. I can remember back to when the Twilight Shoreliner had (see-through) graphics that actually covered all the windows. Imagine an entire train with a continuous stripe not interrupted by any windows! Unfortunately, this growing practice (on both trains & buses) was discontinued after 9/11 when authorities realized that it would not be possible to see any bad guys through the windows in case of possible terrorism.

What are you talking about? We have had plenty of fully wrapped cars on both amtrak, NJT and plenty of NJT buses in the last few years. Heck even the LRVs have been done this way in recent years.

Its not like you can see much inside of railcars and buses anymore with these solar energy efficient tinted windows.

Returning to delivery....

I find it interesting to see the announced dedication of the new Viewliners towards Amtrak's Atlantic Coast Service. As GBN reminds us the SAL, operator of the famous Champion nearly stayed out of the formation of Amtrak due to the profitability of their Florida passenger trains. The decision by Amtrak to expand the Atlantic Coast Service first really makes me wonder if in essence for all these years the market dynamics have never gone away.

Others have asked about the number of diners etc. Lets just speculate for a moment and imagine that Amtrak really wants to focus on expanding these trains to their full potential in the high season. If that's the case then in general they'll need a dining car for every three +/- sleeper cars. In some cases this could mean a requirement for more than one dining car per train.

ApproachMedium wrote: What are you talking about? We have had plenty of fully wrapped cars on both amtrak, NJT and plenty of NJT buses in the last few years. Heck even the LRVs have been done this way in recent years.

After 9/11 agencies removed graphics from windows due to terrorism concerns. You are right that there has been a relaxing of that issue, but I don't know if that is due to a changing of any rule or just a time-heals-all laissez-faire. I do know that there still is concern about the graphic wraps possibly hindering emergency escape windows and first responders glass removal.

In any case if the issue is now moot, how about a continuous graphic right through the windows to unify a train into one long sleek Phase III stripe!

I don't think it's possible to put those on the windows without hindering the view. So no, I hate those wraps when they go over the windows.

Exhibit A: The Verizon FiOS train.
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Exhibit B: Secaucus Transfer opening, 2004
http://webspace.webring.com/people/tt/t ... jt5322.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It could be done, but I dont see the point. Thats just another thing to add to the cost of maintaining the cars. Back to viewliner nonsense.

It's far easier to place wraps on smooth-sides cars than on fluted sides cars. UTA Frontrunner trains have wraps, and those wraps don't seem to add much, if at all, to the costs of maintaining the trains.

Wraps can, of course,also be used to drive ancillary revenue... Witness the large number of my local city buses tthat were recently devoted to heralding the arrival of Bon-Ton.

The BBD sausage style cars are smooth sided,which makes it easy to wrap,what drives 1st responders nuts is when
the wrap covers the gasket rubber of the Egress windows,making it harder to remove(seamless wrap).
Wrapped vehicles exposed to to all kinds of weather will wear/tear at door openings/access hatches,
and over time(as MBTA found)fuse to the paint,when removed,repainting is required or a rewrapping
of the entire vehicle is done.

The biggest need of sleeper space is the silver service trains,then the Lake Shore(both sections) is next,
then the Crescent,then the Capital Ltd to release Superliners to the west,then the Montrealer if restarted,
depending if the Cardinal finally goes daily,will need sleepers,after the V-I's get overhauled,maybe(NEC overnight)trains 66/67 can
finally get their sleepers back.

Backshophoss wrote:The biggest need of sleeper space is the silver service trains,then the Lake Shore(both sections) is next,
then the Crescent,then the Capital Ltd to release Superliners to the west,then the Montrealer if restarted,
depending if the Cardinal finally goes daily,will need sleepers,after the V-I's get overhauled,maybe(NEC overnight)trains 66/67 can
finally get their sleepers back.

No matter how many times you guys suggest the Capital Limited will switch to Viewliners so there will be more Superliners out west, you all keep forgetting that Amtrak needs a Superliner train for equipment moves for the Auto Train to Chicago and Indianapolis. The Capital Limited is that train. Otherwise Amtrak will be deadheading Superliner cars 900+ miles, 1800+ miles round trip between Chicago and D.C. Why deadhead when you can keep that Superliner car in service.

Next, I'll expect some of you to suggest that the Auto Train should swap to Viewliners for the same reason, after all there are more Superliner cars on it than on the Capital Limited. Get real, Amtrak didn't buy enough Viewliner IIs to place them on the Capital Limited, nor on the Auto Train.

electricron wrote:

Backshophoss wrote:The biggest need of sleeper space is the silver service trains,then the Lake Shore(both sections) is next,
then the Crescent,then the Capital Ltd to release Superliners to the west,then the Montrealer if restarted,
depending if the Cardinal finally goes daily,will need sleepers,after the V-I's get overhauled,maybe(NEC overnight)trains 66/67 can
finally get their sleepers back.

No matter how many times you guys suggest the Capital Limited will switch to Viewliners so there will be more Superliners out west, you all keep forgetting that Amtrak needs a Superliner train for equipment moves for the Auto Train to Chicago and Indianapolis. The Capital Limited is that train. Otherwise Amtrak will be deadheading Superliner cars 900+ miles, 1800+ miles round trip between Chicago and D.C. Why deadhead when you can keep that Superliner car in service.

Next, I'll expect some of you to suggest that the Auto Train should swap to Viewliners for the same reason, after all there are more Superliner cars on it than on the Capital Limited. Get real, Amtrak didn't buy enough Viewliner IIs to place them on the Capital Limited, nor on the Auto Train.

Well, I was going to suggest swapping the single-level cars on the Cardinal (plus some) for the Superliners on the Cap, and changing their respective termini to fit. Presto, a daily Cardinal and a single-level Cap with Pennsylvanian run-through capability.

mtuandrew wrote:Well, I was going to suggest swapping the single-level cars on the Cardinal (plus some) for the Superliners on the Cap, an changing their respective termini to fit. Presto, a daily Cardinal and a single-level Cap with Pennsylvanian run-through capability.

Since the Capital Limited would not be going to the US capital anymore, what would you rename it, the Broadway Limited? Are there any low clearances on the Cardinal route that would eliminate Superliners, assuming it's new eastern terminus is D.C.? What do you propose to service the cities and towns between Pittsburgh and D.C. after diverting the Capital Limited away? I'm sure western Maryland will raise some political opposition for loss of service. Are we really saving equipment, or using more with this latest proposal?

electricron wrote:

mtuandrew wrote: Are we really saving equipment, or using more with this latest proposal?

I think we are just filling this thread up with a lot of pipe dreams and railbuff "I wants" that will never happen. They pay people in DC a lot of money every year to figure this stuff out, crunch the numbers, look at the ridership and see where the stuff goes and needs to be. I am pretty sure theres a good reason the AutoTrain and the Capitol are both superliner trains and the Cardinal stays single level and runs the way it does.