sextant wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 5:28 pm
What’s in Scranton anyway? Last I saw there was half empty shopping mall downtown and when I went to the courthouse to contest a traffic ticket some pretty rough looking criminals and cops…. By the time I was done at night I needed a Vet Friend with a conceal carry permit just to go get pizza and a beer and escort me back to my car
I believe the concept of bringing back rail service to Scranton (and the surrounding area), it will also bring people, industry, etc. to the area as well. A "build it and they will come" concept. Probably a very flawed concept, but people are desperate to revitalize the area.
photobug56 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 9:50 pm
If you are talking about the Justice of the Peace office across from the courthouse, I spent 2 summers working there. As to the merits of restoring commuter and passenger rail service to Scranton, it would be a big boost to Scranton, the Poconos, Stroudsburg, western NJ, and various schools and resorts and other tourist attractions including skiing, and as commuting gradually comes back, make it easier to commute. Plus it can get a lot of cars off of I80 and I380.
IIRC it's been more than well established that a train from (near) Scranton to NYC would be considerably longer than just driving. Sure, there could be some tourism, but I don't know if Scranton is a very walkable area. When people take a train to an area, said area must be also walkable enough to justify not bringing a car there. And I don't think anyone is going to rent a car just to hang out in Scranton at this time.
photobug56 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:08 pm
Give Brightline a right of way, few grade crossings, some challenges, and they'd be done all the way to Scranton in a couple years.
Brightline is a private company, I don't think they would be interested in this line unless the government agreed to heavily subsidize it - there's no way that they would be able to make a profit off of the line, unless the line was 100+ MPH trackage rating (expensive, especially in the Northeast) and Brightline could buy and build tons of real estate/apartments/shopping centers along the ROW, which is why they are successful in Florida.
amtrakowitz wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 12:55 pm
After reviewing how Brightline got its funding, just who is willing in the Northeast to give them loans and/or bonds to operate any trains anywhere over the corridor(s) in question? And that’s assuming the economy improves at any time in the near future. No government agency in the Northeast is going to give up its grip on rail services; Florida is a far different state government-wise.
Agreed. Brightline filled in a demand in Florida that needed to be filled, when there were few alternatives/options. The NEC and Empire Corridor are already there, do decent enough, and the state for sure won't give up control of those.
lensovet wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:02 pm
What agency? Brightline built its track on its own ROW. Am I even on an RR forum?
I am wondering the same especially after that comment about politics earlier in the thread.
scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:57 pm
There are two issues of "brightline just taking over the route" i can think of.
Iirc, brightline is non union. And those crews would have to qualify on Nj transit, and NEC, to get into NYC.
That said, long term, the Nepa region will be desirable, as climate change makes florida real estate go underwater (literally, and marketwise). So, Someone operating with the model of, "if we build it, they will come (to get where it's not flooded, or fatal wet bulb conditions like what kills hundreds in india, every year)" and can wait on the properties not filling immediately, it would be eventually profitable.
I could also see that being used for philly to reading area service.
It will most likely be a long time, probably at least a century or two, before much of South Florida is consistently underwater. It's already underwater for a decent chunk of the year due to hurricane season, and that didn't stop Brightline almost a decade ago now.
If we have to concentrate on developing NEPA due to climate change wrecking havoc on the coastal Northeast, I think rail service will probably be one of the last considerations for that continuity plan.
photobug56 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:46 pm
The point is that what's left of NJT, after Christie emasculated it, is no longer capable of getting anything done, including running its existing service, while Brightline seems to be very efficient at rebuilding old lines, building new, and moving things forward.
Again with the politics. Christie has been gone for quite some time now, if Governor Murphy hasn't been able to significantly turn NJT around by now, the issue with NJT most likely goes deeper than Christie
Frank wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:20 pm
I don't think so, I would dread any private company running the NEC or any major passenger railroad in the Northeast. Brightline is better off keeping to small RRs.
Brightline's operation in Florida, which will run from Miami to Orlando in less than a year, and then to Tampa by probably the end of the decade, is not a "small RR." That is considerable distance, and they will most likely be pulling numbers on par with most Northeastern routes, if not more. Why do you dread "any private company running the NEC or any major passenger railroad in the Northeast"?
lensovet wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:22 pm
Btw, Brightline promised 240k monthly riders in their bond sale. They broke 100k for the first time after over 4 years in operation, which is still less than half of what they promised. Imagine what would happen if NJT did the same after taking over 4 billion in "taxpayer money"?
I don't think criticizing Brightline for not meeting their projected demand is fair. In that four years, there was a pretty significant event (COVID) that shut down their operations, and as they opened back up, the public has been nervous to take public transportation due to health concerns.
As for giving NJT money, NJT's yearly allocation for funding will be just over $2.5B next year - no matter where "taxpayer money" goes to, people will complain about it.
lensovet wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:17 pm
Their ROW is also pretty much flat and runs through territory that doesn't have any protected species or dilapidated century-old tunnels and viaducts that need repair.
Excellent point. Brightline had little to no legacy infrastructure to deal with, all of their infrastructure is brand-spanking new modern technology, making the process much easier. It's similar to how Europe and Japan have built some impressive rail infrastructure, after WW2 they pretty much had to start over from scratch, which allowed them a lot of freedoms with planning and construction.
Frank wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:20 pm
Just because they had success in Florida doesn't mean it can repeat itself up in the Northeast. Different environment.
Agreed. It's a totally different ball game up here vs. down in Florida, I lived down there for a year or so for school before COVID hit and I moved back up.