Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

I have a feeling, based on the "Build it, and they will come" philosophy, that about 5 years after the line is open to Andover, that there will be some significant growth in that area. New York-Scranton, not so much but possibly Stroudsberg and vicinity, and points east, if they get that far.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:08 pm Mr. John from Jersey, you do raise an interesting point.

Will Brightline essentially be confined to the additional track being built W Palm to Cocoa Rockledge and FEC to the existing, or will operations of both roads be "intermingled" allowing both tracks available for either class of traffic?

There is a situation with the Utah passenger service. Between Salt Lake City and Ogden UTA paid (surely Federal and State funding in the mix as well) for an additional track to be laid alongside the existing UP double track. UP must stay off the UTA track, but UTA can use the UP in an emergency.

That is an interesting point indeed. FEC doesn't run nearly as often as Brightline runs (especially once they get the Orlando connection complete), so I'd imagine Brightline can run on FEC's tracks (if needed) but FEC can't run on Brightline tracks, like how you said UTA does.

Another interesting thing to note, is much of the (main) line, if not all of it, from Cocoa to Orlando is going to be single-tracked.

CharlieL wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:25 pm I have a feeling, based on the "Build it, and they will come" philosophy, that about 5 years after the line is open to Andover, that there will be some significant growth in that area. New York-Scranton, not so much but possibly Stroudsberg and vicinity, and points east, if they get that far.

I think it's very likely to bring some serious development to Northwestern NJ for sure.

CharlieL wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:25 pm I have a feeling, based on the "Build it, and they will come" philosophy, that about 5 years after the line is open to Andover, that there will be some significant growth in that area. New York-Scranton, not so much but possibly Stroudsburg and vicinity, and points east, if they get that far.

If it becomes easy for people in NYC to go to the Poconos and Scranton for resorts, including for skiers, that would be a big boost, especially keeping these people off the main highways. Martz Bus could use some of its fleet for transferring people from trains to resorts. The same for kids in the colleges along the way and in Scranton, including from Long Island. Lots of good possibilities.

Brightline and FEC are planning on integrated dual track operations based on the number of crossovers Brightline is building. Brightline has prepared the Cocoa-Orlando ROW for double track, but is only expecting to need a single track on that segment initially. I think some of the Brightline stations closer to Miami are built to have 3 or even 4 tracks to allow Brightline, FEC, and future commuter services to all work.

Construction of Andover Station has started on the Cut-Off. Comments and pictures please.

https://youtu.be/y9P4wM-OebA

I still don't understand the rationale of Amtrak restoring passenger service to Scranton over the Cutoff other than as a means to bring back an unneeded section of track. Personal sentiments aside, whether it is paid for by NJ Transit or Amtrak, it still seems a waste of taxpayer resources.

This has been argued numerous times here. Most of us see great value in it in many ways. I'm too tired of arguing this so I'm NOT going to go through it.

No need, I’ve read the posts. Just disagree. Thanks for responding.

CRB wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:19 am https://youtu.be/y9P4wM-OebA

I still don't understand the rationale of Amtrak restoring passenger service to Scranton over the Cutoff other than as a means to bring back an unneeded section of track. Personal sentiments aside, whether it is paid for by NJ Transit or Amtrak, it still seems a waste of taxpayer resources.

Not about rationale, but government control.

And define “unneeded”.

lol.

anyway, Chuck clearly wants to see this happen (like 90% of the video is devoted to him talking about it), but I have seen zero indication that the route to Scranton is on anyone's radar beyond that initial fantasy map.

either way, i'm glad to see that work to Andover is finally progressing, as this is basically the first real construction activity on the line in over a decade.

amtrakowitz wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:35 pm Not about rationale, but government control.

And define “unneeded”.

Unneeded for passenger service (westbound) and freight service both directions.

Is there really enough potential riders to Scranton to justify the costs of reactivating and maintaining track and infrastructure between Slateford Jct and Andover?

At the present time, probably not. And in the near future, maybe. I could see Hovnanian building new mini-towns on hundreds of acres and then touting "rail service" to lure in buyers. Of course, this goes against the New Urbanism resurgence as well as NJ's push to build "transit villages" in existing urban areas.

The section of NJ that would be serviced by the Cutoff has historically been averse to allowing that kind of development but maybe that has changed. I remain skeptical. And that doesn't address the Amtrak angle.

Reminder; I80 and other roads are over saturated. People in NYC need or want to go to Western NJ, Poconos, Stroudsburg, Scranton and eventually beyond. It's a slow slog these days by car or bus. If I had a viable train connection via Penn and LIRR for an upcoming trip to Scranton (I know in reality this is still years away), I'd use the train, and rent a car locally in Scranton for my time there. People from NYC would be far more willing to go to resorts in Poconos with train service. Students without cars could use it going back and forth. And there is need for commuting capacity along various parts of the route.

Simply because someone played "connect the dots" in a coloring book does not mean that public funds can be warranted to lay some twenty eight miles of track, albeit over a well-engineered and graded right of way (estimated @ $9M per mile), then upgrade another sixty miles of FRA Class 1 (OK; maybe some @2) to Class 4 just to operate several passenger trains to a region that has been in decline for likely the past 100 years. Politicians voting for that kind of folly should be voted out of office.

So I respect, Mr. Bug, that such could meet your personal needs, as it could some other less vocal members around here, I think it's simply time to put this proposal away.