National Railroads Strike in September?

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 5:51 am USA TODAY was saying it's going to affect everything (can't link, it's paywalled). Other news sources (CNN, Washington Post, Fox News Business, etc) confirm.

Here's a gifted linked to yesterday's Washington Post article about the situation,
"As U.S. rail strike looms, White House aides scramble to avert crisis"
https://wapo.st/3ddcT9B

(The link should work for 14 days)

Thank you Mr. Train 60 (which one you have in mind Amtrak Montrealer or PRR Pittsburgher?), for gifting this comprehensive Post article to the Forum. From my experience with The Times site, I know that major publications limit the amount of copyrighted material a user may share with outsiders.

Of course, on the other hand, I wonder why pay platforms (and walls) were not in place during '96 - if that is when the birth of the commercial internet can be marked.

I trust it's noted first that walkouts can only begin at 1201A Friday Sep 16 and that only two crafts - the Operating Employees have not settled. While those here who are Operating employees would like to see other crafts decline to "cross", there is no assurance that will be the case.

But I still have "faith in the Act" (three years of my RR career was in Labor Relations); for it has done a far better job in keeping the peace within the railroad industry (airlines? not quite as good) than has only "The Trilogy", which governs other non-rail or air labor relations.

John_Perkowski wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 1:33 am Question for the order…how much of the alcohol for the Nations 90-10 gasoline/alcohol mix is transported by flatcar? How many days can our refineries make gasoline for shipment to the pump?

Nevermind ethanol. There is a CO2 shortage now, and any interruptions in transportation will make it worse. CO2 is used in carbonating and dispensing soda and beer. Just wait until those industries go flat!

Mr. Blaisdell, off topic and off rails. I never knew the "suds" in beer, of which I have not partaken since college (almost true), comes from CO2!!!!

Read before this is killed.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:41 am Mr. Blaisdell, off topic and off rails. I never knew the "suds" in beer, of which I have not partaken since college (almost true), comes from CO2!!!!

Read before this is killed.

Let me get it back on the rails with a comparison. Yes, it's CO2 -- I worked in a movie mega-theater and they train you that if the CO2 supply tanks start leaking, you're evacuating the entire complex. Those things supply the soda fountains that fizz up your soda. When Coke/Pepsi/local soda bottler cans your soda, they pour it and seal it.

Would it work on a train? Maybe, but it's too risky, so it's bottled/canned all the way. Better to have a soda can go *pop* than a CO2 tank kill the staff and passengers.

At least the union isn't demanding soda fountains in every engine...

If the CO2 is in a storage compartment that can vent outside during a catastrophic release, there's no reason not to have post-mix or fountain soda on a train.

The bigger reason against post-mix on an airplane or train is volume. Cans allow for a lot more variety and better use of the available storage vs. bulk CO2, water, syrup and ice.

Beer uses varying mixes of CO2 and nitrogen (N) depending on the brew. Lighter beers and IPA's are 75% CO2 25% N, while heavy stouts like Guinness are 75% N 25% CO2.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 6:11 am Two Republican Senators introduce a joint resolution to avert the strike.

Unfortunately, no regulation on crew hours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBRuVxHzON4

Have a listen, no axe to grind just a counter point to the above article.

You're an outsider too. You don't see me begrudging you your right to an opinion on what happens with a union issue that you admit you don't have a dog in the hunt on...

Mr eolsen
I am a BLET member but Amtrak does not take part in these negotiations. However when this settled the frame work set forth will be used to negotiate our contracts. So things like percentage of raise, sick time, personal days of which BLET members have none and one of the other do matter to me.

John_Perkowski wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 1:33 am Question for the order…how much of the alcohol for the Nations 90-10 gasoline/alcohol mix is transported by flatcar? How many days can our refineries make gasoline for shipment to the pump?

I don't think there's a single bulk chemical that won't be affected by this. That doesn't just include ethanol for gasoline but also diesel exhaust fluid, ammonia (for fertilizer etc.), CO2, you name it.

Then there's ocean container freight. Will the Longshoremen (ILWU on the West Coast, ILA everywhere else) cross a BLET picket line? I doubt it.

Another gifted link, from today's Washington Post —

"Amtrak cancellations, passenger frustrations grow amid strike threat"
https://wapo.st/3BhjPdF

(should be viewable by anyone for 14 days)

Hearing that Norfolk Southern will stop accepting incoming shipments (stuff to be loaded on trains) tomorrow. Shipments at their destination facilities (already shipped by rail) will be available for pickup by the customer.

Railjunkie wrote: You're an outsider too. You don't see me begrudging you your right to an opinion on what happens with a union issue that you admit you don't have a dog in the hunt on...

I'm an outsider, yes. But when 40% of the goods shipped in the US are shipped by rail, there's a good chance I may be buying them... and they may be out and/or at inflated prices. "No dog in the hunt?" Well, all of America now has interest in it now. It's hit NBC News on their nightly broadcast. CBS News is carrying stories on it. ABC news. Associated Press. If this doesn't get resolved, it's going to hit the economy hard, and we'll be in full-on recession.

What I'd love to see is this attendance policy get ripped up and something more closer to what us outsiders get: 40 hours a week, 8 hours a day, everything else overtime OR a big set salary doled out on a regular basis.

Yes, I've been on-call, woken at odd hours of the night, even called while on vacation because something in a system I oversee broke and I had to advise on what to do next or fix it from remote. I've also been woken up because something more fundamental broke and I had to be on the company call while that department fixed the issue because it affected my system. That happened for nearly seven years, with me being defacto-24/7, until this year when the system I was managing was put under control of a proper department, and my department (Development) instated an on-call rotation for the systems that are our main concern. If Development on-call has to be called, that means something majorly screwed up and we got to screw it back down again.

So I've experienced similar pain. Do I wish it on anyone? ABSOLUTELY NOT! And that includes railroad engineers and conductors.

Let me make this clear: I'm with the engineers and conductors. I'm ashamed that the Presidential Select Committee punted on the attendance policy. I hope Congress extends the cooling off period, and these two Republicans be forced to drive home. This resolution is crap.

Ridgefielder wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 5:10 pm Then there's ocean container freight. Will the Longshoremen (ILWU on the West Coast, ILA everywhere else) cross a BLET picket line? I doubt it.

Mr. Ridgefield, that sounds like a Secondary Boycott - prohibited by provisions within the Trilogy - more specifically the Wagner Act.

Railroad and airline labor relations as governed under the Act do so only to the extent of the Act's provisions. For example, both the Act and the Trilogy have differing provisions relating to representation elections. Within those industries, the Act's govern. In the case of Secondary Boycotts, the Act is silent, but they are prohibited by the Trilogy.

It's been too long since I dove into secondary boycott vs. honoring a picket line, but I recall it has to do with *where* the picket line is. It can be a very fine line between the two.

BLET can establish a picket line at facilities they're striking, e.g. the West Coast ports or an intermodal transload facility. ILWU will *not* cross those lines. Period. They're the strongest of the unions without a doubt, and the ports are not only served by those railroads, but integral to the operation. Teamsters won't cross a line into the intermodal facilities, but I suspect there are few drayage drivers left who are union...

My recollection is that BLET can't reasonably establish a picket line at the entrance to JB Hunt, Schneider, UPS or FedEx facilities, or at a Costco distribution center hoping truckers and other trades will honor it. Even though those are all likely shippers on one of the impacted railroads or someone who might pick up the slack, if there's not a direct tie to the property or company being struck, that's where it risks becoming a secondary boycott. Truth is that if they did set up pickets at those locations, the damage would be done before an injunction could be obtained.

Corrections to that welcomed.

Mr. Olsen, we are "on the same page".

If, say, at Port of LA/LB, the striking railroad employees can set a line around the railroad facilities, surely the Longshoremen would not X. But the railroad employees cannot set a line around dock facilities that Longshoremen would have X in order to service the vessels or truck lines. That is a Secondary Boycott.

Yes, it has been a few years since I had any workplace exposure to such issues.

Railjunkie wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 12:15 am

ExCon90 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:51 pm Something I've often wondered about but never asked: is the wage scale negotiated at the national level the same for a given craft nationwide; i.e., the same in a major metropolitan area with a high cost of living as in a small town with a huge class yard and engine terminal and not much else, thus a much lower cost of living? If so, is there any uniform opinion in the unions for something like a "cost-of-living" differential -- particularly when both areas are on the same railroad?

In a word, YES, the rate of pay is the rate of pay weather you are in New York, Mississippi or [Katmandu]

That is ridiculous; the cost of living in say the LA area is almost double the cost of living in Massachusetts, and the cost of living in rural Maine, rural NY, or lets pick on Arkansas is a lot cheaper than Massachusetts. So if the railroads are still attracting employees in LA and NYC and Washington DC they must be overpaying in all other locations except for Katmandu.

I was under the impression that secondary boycotts were allowed in the transportation industry for some weird reason. Am I remembering wrong?