National Railroads Strike in September?

This cutting to the bone with the resulting fatigue is a dangerous item. Is the UP collision that killed both crew a result of fatigue?

That's the average compensation for an IT contractor with an associates degree who works at home and has flexibility to set his own schedule. It's not chump change, but its bullshit pay for effectively always being on call to go to work sober.

As someone who has been hiring IT professionals for 22 years, the only people making that with an associates are hard-core mainframe or ancient language specialists. Under 30 with an associates, you'll probably be doing desktop support or at a help desk work working midnights with midweeks off... for about 80K.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

eolesen wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:45 pm The UP policy isn't unlike what I've seen for flight attendants or other non-fixed schedule jobs.

Bottom line is that you're not working in retail or a warehouse. You're in a time critical job where your absences have a huge ripple effect on others.

Average comp goes from 95K to 110K plus benefits of 40-50K in value.

That ain't chump change. Good money has a cost. Quit your pissing & moaning about being expected to show up to work already and cash the checks.

If you want the ability to miss work with no real impact or consequences, I'm sure Amazon has a warehouse job open somewhere near you.

Sent from my SM-T290 using Tapatalk

First may I say spoken like a true manager BRAVO. I have had the opportunity to serve under many of your type through out my career and it all comes down to the same thing. No clue what goes on outside the four walls they look at each day or they could not make it in the craft they hired out in so they chose the managerial rout.

https://unitedafa.org/docs/grievance/di ... -guide.pdf

https://ble-t.com/resc/pdf_tey_attendance_072821.pdf

As Mr eolesen is or was a United Airlines employee I decided to pull their attendance policy. I will let him explain how they are similar other than the fact they are points based. A quick perusal and the point system is similar but different. Plus I would like to add the normal stewardess works about 150 hours a month of which 100ish is flying. Pilots work about 230 hours a month of which 80ish are spent in the air.

Granted a completely different skill set. Freight T&E crews work 240 to 288 hours a month. That is in all types of weather in some pretty "nice" neighborhoods or maybe you better check that switch stand for snakes before you throw it. Ain't nobody coming to help you boy if you get bit and the chemicals that maybe on that train can kill you dead in a second if your not paying attention. Moving heavy equipment when your tired wet hungry and under pressure to get the job done is difficult enough. Made worse because some bean counter who never set foot on the ground and only played with daddy's Lionel trains decided its cheaper to do the work with one person than it was with two or three is a recipe for trouble.

I would also share the luxurious accommodations that the railroads find for us on our layovers would never fly with airline personnel. I'm sure you all would love to stay in a room infested with bed bugs or perhaps walk in and find a rat on your bed. Mice and roaches ohh my. How can you get a good nights sleep when you are next to a NYC fire department that goes on call like every half hour it seems. A few personal favorites a shared with me from my freight brothers and my own personal experiences. A by the hour hotel well it was for the johns anyway. A swimming pool filled with used condoms, needles and a gentleman behind the desk with a .357. Pulling the covers back to find out they never changes the sheets and they are soiled, fucking awesome ain't it. During COVID a hotel we used turned into a homeless shelter on one side and you had instances of homeless trying to break in while crews were sleeping. No I am not making this up I have no reason to.

Sure you could move your room but its still the same crappy hotel.

Yup we should shut the f up and cash our checks. Nah I have a better idea Mr eolesen why not get rid of the shirt and tie hire out and see this for yourself. BNSF UP and Amtrak are all hiring. If the job is so great come get some.

Railjunkie wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:02 am I would also share the luxurious accommodations that the railroads find for us on our layovers would never fly with airline personnel. I'm sure you all would love to stay in a room infested with bed bugs or perhaps walk in and find a rat on your bed.

Mr. Junkie, for what it be worth, on my overseas journey last month, I "picked up on it" that at least some United Attendants "not exactly doing cartwheels" over the accommodations near Munich. Now I realize and respect that an Attendant will not share with a passenger the actual hotel at which they stay, but such is out by the airport which means they are isolated from any kind of restaurants beyond whatever the hotel offers. May as well just stock up at the airport's C-Store (I think it is Edeka - a 7-11 type outfit over there) and have "Dinner" sitting atop one's bed.

Now the Officers come out ahead; reportedly they still get to go into Stadtmitte, but someone pushing a pencil "with altitude sickness" at Sears Tower, will realize "hey let 'em stay out near the airport; good enough for the Attendants, good enough for them" next time the matter is addressed collectively under the Act.

It is ironic that as I sit here and type this reply I am at an airport hotel and when I noticed the crew sheets last night right next to the American Airlines check-in sheet was the CSX T&E sheet. Had a good conversation in the lobby with one of the CSX guys headed for some sleep. I can unequivocally say that having worked at a mainline and regional airline, the hotels are certainly contractually better at the former. Some of it is the fact that I have a contractual provision that says if the room isn't satisfactory to me, the Captain, I can find another one. At my competitor airline, United, the unions have veto rights when selecting a hotel. Some of it also is where we stay and locations. Not surprising that here in Nashville CSX stays here as well. Hard to find a nice airport style Radisson for CP crews in Jackman, Maine or Glenwood, Minnesota. So yes, the railroaders should get some contractual right or compensation for the nature of that job.

I am not surprised that amidst worker shortages this is coming to a head. I find the situation the railroads are in is similar to the airlines and finding pilots. When I got into this profession decades ago the promise was we would have 5 or so years of crap wages and working conditions and it would be made up on the back end. Well, that back end today isn't what it was and it's worse because of inflation. That promise also isn't attracting the "kids" today. We have made work rule changes to protect some - some -of those wages over the last several years to be more productive. Think being away from home more. Think railroad attendance policies.

Couple this today with the changes in so many fields. White collar office workers can now do their work from their basements and many companies will make this permanent. The trades (plumber, welder, electrician) pay similar to railroad wages with similar skills and you don't need to be subject to being away every night, all night. There is a premium that has been eroded for this sort of work, and it's a time it needs to be an even greater premium when so many other careers are taking permanent shifts in favor of better working conditions.

Railjunkie wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:02 am

eolesen wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:45 pm The UP policy isn't unlike what I've seen for flight attendants or other non-fixed schedule jobs.

Bottom line is that you're not working in retail or a warehouse. You're in a time critical job where your absences have a huge ripple effect on others.

Average comp goes from 95K to 110K plus benefits of 40-50K in value.

That ain't chump change. Good money has a cost. Quit your pissing & moaning about being expected to show up to work already and cash the checks.

If you want the ability to miss work with no real impact or consequences, I'm sure Amazon has a warehouse job open somewhere near you.

Sent from my SM-T290 using Tapatalk

First may I say spoken like a true manager BRAVO. I have had the opportunity to serve under many of your type through out my career and it all comes down to the same thing. No clue what goes on outside the four walls they look at each day or they could not make it in the craft they hired out in so they chose the managerial rout.

https://unitedafa.org/docs/grievance/di ... -guide.pdf

https://ble-t.com/resc/pdf_tey_attendance_072821.pdf

As Mr eolesen is or was a United Airlines employee I decided to pull their attendance policy. I will let him explain how they are similar other than the fact they are points based. A quick perusal and the point system is similar but different. Plus I would like to add the normal stewardess works about 150 hours a month of which 100ish is flying. Pilots work about 230 hours a month of which 80ish are spent in the air.

Granted a completely different skill set. Freight T&E crews work 240 to 288 hours a month. That is in all types of weather in some pretty "nice" neighborhoods or maybe you better check that switch stand for snakes before you throw it. Ain't nobody coming to help you boy if you get bit and the chemicals that maybe on that train can kill you dead in a second if your not paying attention. Moving heavy equipment when your tired wet hungry and under pressure to get the job done is difficult enough. Made worse because some bean counter who never set foot on the ground and only played with daddy's Lionel trains decided its cheaper to do the work with one person than it was with two or three is a recipe for trouble.

I would also share the luxurious accommodations that the railroads find for us on our layovers would never fly with airline personnel. I'm sure you all would love to stay in a room infested with bed bugs or perhaps walk in and find a rat on your bed. Mice and roaches ohh my. How can you get a good nights sleep when you are next to a NYC fire department that goes on call like every half hour it seems. A few personal favorites a shared with me from my freight brothers and my own personal experiences. A by the hour hotel well it was for the johns anyway. A swimming pool filled with used condoms, needles and a gentleman behind the desk with a .357. Pulling the covers back to find out they never changes the sheets and they are soiled, fucking awesome ain't it. During COVID a hotel we used turned into a homeless shelter on one side and you had instances of homeless trying to break in while crews were sleeping. No I am not making this up I have no reason to.

Sure you could move your room but its still the same crappy hotel.

Yup we should shut the f up and cash our checks. Nah I have a better idea Mr eolesen why not get rid of the shirt and tie hire out and see this for yourself. BNSF UP and Amtrak are all hiring. If the job is so great come get some.

AMEN, brother!

bsweep wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 9:19 am . At my competitor airline, United, the unions have veto rights when selecting a hotel. Some of it also is where we stay and locations. Not surprising that here in Nashville CSX stays here as well.

Captain Sweep, what you have reported here aligns with what I noted regarding United flight crews at Munich.

Who knows, and I realize "that's the other guys" for you, the United Officers exercised the provision you note in their Agreement, and said "we like it downtown (Stadtmitte) and that's where we stay".

Meanwhile "back on the rails", I guess Mr. Junkie, and for that matter his Class I Brothers and Sisters, are not expecting anytime soon the prerogative afforded United Officers. I guess the best that can be hoped for is that Local Chairmen can prevail and enforce the "suitable lodging" provision within the Agreements.

But based upon Mr. Junkie's reports, such does not appear on the horizon.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 10:07 am

bsweep wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 9:19 am . At my competitor airline, United, the unions have veto rights when selecting a hotel. Some of it also is where we stay and locations. Not surprising that here in Nashville CSX stays here as well.

Captain Sweep, what you have reported here aligns with what I noted regarding United flight crews at Munich.

Who knows, and I realize "that's the other guys" for you, the United Officers exercised the provision you note in their Agreement, and said "we like it downtown (Stadtmitte) and that's where we stay".

Meanwhile "back on the rails", I guess Mr. Junkie, and for that matter his Class I Brothers and Sisters, are not expecting anytime soon the prerogative afforded United Officers. I guess the best that can be hoped for is that Local Chairmen can prevail and enforce the "suitable lodging" provision within the Agreements.

But based upon Mr. Junkie's reports, such does not appear on the horizon.

An acquaintance is a first seat on a 737 for Delta from the way he made it sound when it comes to accommodations it better be four stars for pilots or there will be issues. I have stayed in some decent hotels at times not any place I would bring my family. Except maybe that one in Montreal, not in the summer though it had no A/C.

This sounds like there needs to be some simple regulation:

Any person under the employ of a rail road company in the capacity of a "human resource officer" or "human resource manager" MUST* have at least one(1) continuous calendar year of in-cab/on-rail experience as an engineer or conductor under the rail road company.

(*In this context, I use the definitions of MUST, MUST NOT, SHOULD, SHOULD NOT, and MAY as specified in Internet Engineering Task Force RFC 2119.)

It surprises me that they have these powerful unions, yet they can't force the railroad to clean the toilets or fix the cab weatherstripping? And this artificial demarcation of what is in the National Agreement and everything else has to be negotiated locally.

FYI: I tend to tune out the emotion laden embellished and exaggerated sob stories that remind me of grandpa walking three miles to school uphill both ways through either three foot snow drifts or 180 degree temperatures. Once one leaves facts for fiction it is hard to get back. Courts and regulators have the same policy ... filter out the sob stories and try to find the facts. They don't make rulings based on emotionally scarred ramblings - and shouldn't make rulings based on such embellishments.

I am sure that I will be told that all of the emotional rants are 100% true with no embellishments. To which I ask "why do you stay"? Are you not qualified for a job that has better hours and a better home life? Or would taking such a job cut your pay and benefits down to a level you would not accept? Or do you have a temperament that better fits working alone or with one other person than working in larger groups? When you share a engine cab with a coworker do they wish it was a one man operation? Do you?

Welcome to the railroad its just not a job it is a way of life. So maybe that 22% raise they keep talking about for my freight brothers and sisters isnt enough???

BandA wrote:It surprises me that they have these powerful unions, yet they can't force the railroad to clean the toilets or fix the cab weatherstripping? And this artificial demarcation of what is in the National Agreement and everything else has to be negotiated locally.

This.

The reason that airline crews get nicer hotels to stay at is because the unions have chosen to make that a contractual issue at the expense of other things like pay or benefits.

Railroad unions had a 50+ year start on airline unions, so if the working conditions are so bad, you'll have to ask the BLET why have they chosen other issues as their negotiating priority.

Yep. I've been a manager for 22 years of my 35 year career. But I started at the airport as a grunt. I've been doused with deicing fluid, loaded bags, and dealt with lavs from both ends. I've cleaned planes. I've worked as an agent inside with ticketing and lost luggage. And no MBA.

You think your life seated in a cab sucks? Go work the ramp. They go thru hazmat recurring training just like you do so you're half qualified already... Dump lavs. Deice an airplane. Load bags in 90F Temps with 80% humidity... and you'll top out at about 80K after 15 years.

Yeah, that average 110K doesn't sound so bad to sit inside as an engineer. Sure you have to stay sober and be available to work all hours. But you've got the conductor and yard crews to do the bulk of the outdoor work...

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

Yes when on trips we always had good accomodations. Once in Laredo our regular hotel was not available for some reason. We ended up in a UP layover motel. What a dump. Talked to UP crews and they said it was better than most.