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Amtrak: Connects US // American Jobs Plan Infrastructure Legislation

Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

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Re: Amtrak: Connects US // American Jobs Plan Infrastructure Legislation

  by Gilbert B Norman
 
No new ground is broken in this Times article appearing in print today:

Fair Use; as related to Gateway:
Officials also want to build new a tunnel under the Hudson River to supplement the crumbling one that was severely damaged during Hurricane Sandy in 2012. The project would cost $12.3 billion to rehabilitate the old tunnel and construct a new one.
Much space that could have been used to address other was wasted when the reporter turned to advocacy groups for interviews. That resulted in statements appearing in the article including this "over the top" one:
Routes could also be restored in regions that lost service decades ago. David Strohmaier, a county commissioner of Missoula County in Southern Montana and the chairman of the Big Sky Passenger Rail Authority, said he hoped that the funding would help re-establish the North Coast Hiawatha Route, which ran between Chicago and Seattle before it ended 42 years ago. He pointed to the potential economic gains: restoring the route as a daily service could generate $271 million in economic benefits annually for the seven states it traverses, according to a Rail Passengers Association analysis.
Should this ever come to pass, Montana will hands down become the dubious "winner" of the title "Most Amtrak train-miles PER CAPITA of any state".

Possibly they hold such already. If not Montana, then Vermont.

Re: Amtrak: Connects US // American Jobs Plan Infrastructure Legislation

  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Senators; Amtrak has a few more pressing issues than the restoration of the North Coast Limited:

https://missoulacurrent.com/business/20 ... thority-3/

Fair Use:
With the new infrastructure bill in hand, a team of bipartisan U.S. senators are directing the Federal Railroad Administration to establish a working group to study and ultimately restore passenger rail in the West and Northwest region.

The letter, led by Sen. Jon Tester and co-signed by five Republicans including Sen. Mitt Romney, R-Utah, and Mike Crapo, R-Idaho, asks the FRA to establish the Greater Northwest Working Group and work to “expedite” provisions within the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act. ....

Re: Amtrak: Connects US // American Jobs Plan Infrastructure Legislation

  by lordsigma12345
 
Mr. Norman I would agree these Senators are getting a little ahead of themselves. If they want to pitch this service it should be subject to the same requirements as all other services. While we may disagree on the LD network - I think they should keep the current routes as a base network rather than axe them and you feel the opposite - I do feel that the future of passenger rail and any expansion is city pairs. Now if the states along the way want to pay for this NCH service and pitch it as such that’s one thing but the idea of the feds adding another service on to the current 15 routes I just don’t see it happening unless the states fund it. Not to mention that as far as LD service the real thing they need to figure out is dealing with the Amfleet 2 and Superliner 1 equipment - along with of course the many other pressing issues across the system Gateway, B&P, Susquehanna bridge, new Acela and Intercity Trainset deliveries, new LD locomotives, figuring out the full deployment of the Viewliner II equipment the list goes on.

Re: Amtrak: Connects US // American Jobs Plan Infrastructure Legislation

  by Tom V
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote:Senators; Amtrak has a few more pressing issues than the restoration of the North Coast Limited:

https://missoulacurrent.com/business/20 ... thority-3/

Fair Use:
With the new infrastructure bill in hand, a team of bipartisan U.S. senators are directing the Federal Railroad Administration to establish a working group to study and ultimately restore passenger rail in the West and Northwest region.

The letter, led by Sen. Jon Tester and co-signed by five Republicans including Sen. Mitt Romney, R-Utah, and Mike Crapo, R-Idaho, asks the FRA to establish the Greater Northwest Working Group and work to “expedite” provisions within the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act. ....
The case for Amtrak’s long distance network is stronger now than its beginning. The airline industry is facing a severe pilot shortage, its hitting their regional affiliates the most which greatly affects their ability to continue to serve smaller communities. United and Delta airlines are trimming the smaller communities, which are covered by Congress through EAS grants (essential air service) and parking their smaller planes to focus on larger planes serving major cities.

https://www.businessinsider.com/small- ... ry-2021-11

Routes like the Empire Builder and possibly the North Coast Hiawatha are a reliable link for smaller communities to larger cities and other small communities.


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Re: Amtrak: Connects US // American Jobs Plan Infrastructure Legislation

  by eolesen
 
Oh, that's just hogwash unless you concede that the LD network should have never existed beyond 1971...

The people flying on EAS subsidy routes aren't going from city to city within Montana. They're flying many states away to larger cities served via a geographically close hub. Had you said the argument for regional corridors was stronger, you'd be closer to correct.

I suspect the short term hiring issues for pilots at regional carriers will work itself out in about 6-18 months. United's ab initio academy has been up and running for a while as has American's. Don't know if Delta has one or not.

I see no way for Amtrak to get any new LD routes started that quickly.

Re: Amtrak: Connects US // American Jobs Plan Infrastructure Legislation

  by lordsigma12345
 
A question for those who may be more familiar with the history of routes like the NCH and Pioneer and the timetable. Would it be possible if there's a real desire by these states to return a level of service to the areas that lost service to operate a daytime service between Portland and SLC that could run with corridor equipment and connect to the existing Zephyr route (instead of running another train from SLC to CHI or slowing down the Zephyr with having to split into sections for through cars) - and a daytime service between North Dakota and Montana that could connect to the Builder instead of again another end to end Chicago to Seattle double overnight train? Let's just say for purposes of this Amtrak is continuing the network and decides rebuilding the Superliners is the most cost effective way to move ahead. In a case like that it would seem to me that the most cost effective way to add new service is to use the new mass produced corridor equipment for new routes rather than having to order more custom built cars.

Re: Amtrak: Connects US // American Jobs Plan Infrastructure Legislation

  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Messrs. Lord and Volpini, you both know my position with regard to this ostensible "need" for continuation of the National Network, or in Forumese, the LD's.

Yes, there is a cadre of "can't drives, won't flys" out there and who prefer a rural life setting. Some may even have chosen to locate in communities such as Hastings, NE on the strength of its access to rail passenger service. But let us be honest, that population is declining and most new "converts", such as that Swedish kid, choose urban areas.

Furthermore, I'd dare say that most of this noted population ride Coach - and bring their own food. Anyone ever note the Amish or other cult riding in Sleepers? The point is that their transport needs could just as easily be satisfied by a bus. I do think that should Amtrak be successful in getting rid of the LD's in an orderly manner, a "busteetoot" should be established for at least five years.

Strange as this may sound, I have actually helped "won't flys" in their quest to visit West Coast relatives. While they are now both deceased, I think on two different occasions, I drove them the 75mi from Amana, IA to Mt. Pleasant, so they could ride the Zephyr. They also have a daughter residing near Fredericksburg for which the "drill" was get a ride to MTP for a Zephyr/Capitol/Regional journey (I think for that one, their other daughter who resides locally, "did the honors").

Finally of concern to me is the possibility that some "can't drives" in Grand Island might start rallying for a "City" to be restored; "they have theirs down in Hastings, where's ours?" The UP now has a passenger train free Overland Route and since '96 the entire "traditional UP" (OR, OSL, LASL). You can be sure Omaha has every intent of keeping it that way.
Last edited by Gilbert B Norman on Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Amtrak: Connects US // American Jobs Plan Infrastructure Legislation

  by WashingtonPark
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:42 am Messrs. Lord and Volpini, you both know my position with regard to this ostensible "need" for continuation of the National Network, or in Forumese, the LD's.
Furthermore, I'd dare say that most of this noted population ride Coach - and bring their own food. Anyone ever note the Amish or other cult riding in Sleepers?
Believe it or not, Mr. Norman, we had a father and son Amish pair riding in the bedroom, not roomette, next to ours on our last trip from LA to Chicago.

Re: Amtrak: Connects US // American Jobs Plan Infrastructure Legislation

  by lpetrich
 
Amtrak-2021-Corridor-Vision-May27_2021.pdf - "More trains. More cities. Better service."

I read that document, and it's all about new regional service, with no new long-distance routes proposed in it.
  • Western Corridors
    • San Luis Obispo - Salinas - San Jose
    • Los Angeles - Riverside - Las Vegas
    • LA - RVS - Indio - Phoenix - Tucson
  • Central Corridors
    • Cheyenne WY - Fort Collins - Boulder - Denver - Colorado Springs - Pueblo
    • Oklahoma City - Wichita - Newton
    • San Antonio - Austin - Fort Worth - Dallas - College Station - Houston - San Antonio
  • Midwestern Corridors
    • Milwaukee - Green Bay
    • Milwaukee - Madison - Minneapolis / St. Paul - Duluth
    • Chicago - Rockford
    • Chicago - Moline - Iowa City
    • Chicago - Indianapolis - Louisville
    • Chicago - Ind - Cincinnati
    • Cincinnati - Dayton - Columbus - Cleveland
    • Cleveland - Toledo - Detroit - (in Canada) - Toronto
    • Cleveland - Buffalo
    • Cleveland - Pittsburgh
  • Northeastern Corridors
    • Philadelphia - Reading
    • NYC - Scranton
    • NYC - Ronkonkoma
    • Albany - Springfield - Boston
    • Boston - Manchester - Concord
    • Brunswick - Rockland
    • Rutland - Burlington
    • St. Albans - Montreal
  • Southeastern Corridors
    • Roanoke - Christiansburg
    • Lynchburg - Raleigh - Wilmington NC
    • Salisbury NC - Asheville
    • Charlotte - Greenville - Atlanta - Birmingham
    • Atlanta - Montgomery
    • Nashville - Chattanooga - Atlanta - Macon - Savannah
    • Baton Rouge - New Orelans - Mobile
    • Jacksonville - Orlando - Tampa / Miami
Quite a lot, and how much gets built will depend on how much state gov'ts support the routes.

Re: Amtrak: Connects US // American Jobs Plan Infrastructure Legislation

  by lpetrich
 
Tester gets OK for Amtrak route study | State & Regional | helenair.com - back in 2008, but it contains a map of the North Coast Hiawatha route.

From east to west:
  • Chicago - Twin Cities - Fargo ND
  • (Empire Builder) Fargo ND - Williston ND - Havre MT - Glacier Park MT - Sandpoint ID
  • (North Coast Hiawatha) Fargo ND - Bismarck ND - Billings MT - Butte MT - Missoula MT - Sandpoint ID
  • Sandpoint ID - Spokane WA - (split) Portland, Seattle
North Coast Hiawatha restoration could benefit Montana to tune of $40M, study says – Daily Montanan
noting
Federal transportation bill holds promise for left-behind rural rail – Daily Montanan

Re: Amtrak: Connects US // American Jobs Plan Infrastructure Legislation

  by lpetrich
 
photobug56 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 24, 2021 12:10 am NYC Ronkonkoma? Makes no sense.
That's what's in the map. It would presumably be a sort of express service, with 3 intermediate stops between RKK and NYC.

Several of the proposed routes run on existing long-distance routes, but they would have more frequent service, as existing regional routes do.

Re: Amtrak: Connects US // American Jobs Plan Infrastructure Legislation

  by Gilbert B Norman
 
While I have not reviewed each page of the "coloring book" located by Mr. Petrich, I did review the Executive Summary (hey if Sen. Blowhard was "expected" to review that, why shouldn't I?), there is scant reference regarding who pays for it?

The summary states $75B over fifteen years ($5B a year) of Federal Funds should be committed; as the services take hold, Fed $$ can be tapered and that Local funding under Sec 209 of PRIIA08 can cover shortfalls (appears 209 is successor to 403b of RPSA70).

Mama Cass, step right up to the mic.

But "$75B over fifteen" is loot and would require fifteen appropriations (remember, Congress can only appropriate funds for each fiscal year, the rest is "authorizations" read "wish list"). In order for a route, such as Chi-Indpls, which would have traffic potential, the only competitive route (Big Four) over which 3.5hr times could be achieved, was chopped up after '76. It would need be re-laid - including reacquiring land. The existing Monon route simply is not competitive.

That same story plays again over practically all the route proposals.

Personally, I'm "all for" development of reasonable and practical short distance routes throughout the land. It made sense when DPM proposed such in "Who Shot The Passenger Train" (May '59), and even more today. What is also intriguing to me is that, even if somehow, someway, the National Network goes where it belongs - history books - Short Distance routes through population centers (ain't those called Corridors, volks?) would enable Amtrak to continue fulfillment of its National in scope mandate set forth by RPSA70.

Re: Amtrak: Connects US // American Jobs Plan Infrastructure Legislation

  by Bracdude181
 
Just curious, would anyone know where this station in reading would be if Amtrak goes through with it? Would RBMN have a connection for their excursion trains?
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