Amtrak: Connects US // American Jobs Plan Infrastructure Legislation

photobug56 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:29 am I think that most of the money should go to districts and states based on how their Congressional representation voted. And yes, that includes GOP reps and Senators who supported it. I'm tired of hearing such that voted against such legislation taking credit for what their districts or states receive.

I'm perfectly fine with that approach as long as taxes are also assessed accordingly to how their representation voted.

photobug56 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:29 am I think that most of the money should go to districts and states based on how their Congressional representation voted. And yes, that includes GOP reps and Senators who supported it. I'm tired of hearing such that voted against such legislation taking credit for what their districts or states receive. Even though I think mass transit, commuter rail and passenger rail overall got badly shortchanged, I do get that our roads are in horrible shape. But I also believe that states and districts whose reps oppose badly needed infrastructure work shouldn't get any help with it.

I’m going to have to go ahead and disagree with that. Only investing in states that are politically aligned to one side further leads to polarization and political disfunction and resentment which we already have enough of. You SHOULD be investing in states that voted against you. Then you take the case to those voters and try to sell how the investments help them.

Lack of economic investment in many areas and de industrialization and the consequences of globalization and other aspects of the world economy is a big part of what leads to the type of politics we are seeing now. And we haven’t done enough to help support those negatively affected by those issues - which has lead to the nationalist/populist feeling among parts of blue collar America. It’s not just politicians fault it’s also economic - an example was Amazon’s HQ2 debacle (after which I officially boycotted them and have avoided purchasing anything from them since.) they teased areas across this country that really could have used that kind of investment and job growth who submitted proposals and the end result was selecting two highly affluent areas of NYC and Northern Virginia who don’t need it. Obviously their goal all along was just to shake down New York and Virginia for tax handouts. In the end NY gave them the boot and it’s going to Northern Virginia - an area which does not need to give tax handouts to a company like Amazon as it’s already among the wealthiest areas of the nation.

Here's The Journal's "take":

https://www.wsj.com/articles/infrastruc ... 1627515002

Fair Use:

The measure also includes a $66 billion investment in rail maintenance, modernization and expansion, most of which will go to Amtrak. It would also alter Amtrak’s stated mission to focus on “the intercity passenger rail needs of the United States,” rather than turning a profit or at least breaking even, something the system hasn’t done since its creation in 1971. The system is attempting a major overhaul to provide a reliable alternative to flying and driving outside of just the Northeast Acela corridor.

If Mr. Photobug's reasoning holds, then there's no Gateway as AOC must be "punished" for her "Nay".

Who knows, maybe she is back pushing Lattes' in The Bronx come January '23.

Mr Norman;

Who knows, maybe she is back pushing Lattes' in The Bronx come January '23.

Yes please!

eolesen wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:53 am

photobug56 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:29 am I think that most of the money should go to districts and states based on how their Congressional representation voted. And yes, that includes GOP reps and Senators who supported it. I'm tired of hearing such that voted against such legislation taking credit for what their districts or states receive.

I'm perfectly fine with that approach as long as taxes are also assessed accordingly to how their representation voted.

The states whose reps vote against bills like this tend to be ones that receive far more back from the Federal government than they send, while the states who support these bills send far more tax revenue to DC than they get back.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:11 am Here's The Journal's "take":

https://www.wsj.com/articles/infrastruc ... 1627515002

Fair Use:

The measure also includes a $66 billion investment in rail maintenance, modernization and expansion, most of which will go to Amtrak. It would also alter Amtrak’s stated mission to focus on “the intercity passenger rail needs of the United States,” rather than turning a profit or at least breaking even, something the system hasn’t done since its creation in 1971. The system is attempting a major overhaul to provide a reliable alternative to flying and driving outside of just the Northeast Acela corridor.

If Mr. Photobug's reasoning holds, then there's no Gateway as AOC must be "punished" for her "Nay".

Who knows, maybe she is back pushing Lattes' in The Bronx come January '23.

Gateway will very likely proceed, hopefully with a lot less money wasted than currently planned. And at least Gateway is not as stupid as the original plan that Chris Christie blocked (then he put the money into other things) - the tunnels to Macy's Cellar. Christie should have put the money into what is now Gateway.

As to AOC, known for blocking Amazon in Long Island City and major transit improvements in LIRR and NYCTA, did do one thing right - she sounded off against Cuomo's Grand Tour of Long Island LaGuardia Air Train. Sure, a subway connection is needed, as is a rail system for that and around LGA, but the way PA and Cuomo planned it would have been beyond absurd. But I have not seen her back any positive transit or commuter infrastructure proposals.

photobug56 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:08 pm Sure, a subway connection is needed, as is a rail system for that and around LGA, but the way PA and Cuomo planned it would have been beyond absurd.

I've seen too many good transit projects that get the job done killed for a supposedly perfect transit project. Wake up, there is no such thing as a perfect solution. Every public transit project has it ups and downs.
The project killed by the new mayor was just about to start construction. Any new project will have to follow through a prolonged 10 year plus environmental studies and FTA final record of decision approval.
Have you not heard the old saying that a bird in hand is worth two in the bush?
Good luck!

It was an awful solution. Something PA is expert at. Another where you take a fairly long subway or LIRR ride way out of the way, and then transfer to another longer than needed Air Train ride for an extra substantial fee. Anywhere else in the world the railroad or subway go to the airport itself directly. Maybe to each terminal, maybe to an around the airport people mover on tracks that goes to all terminals and parking areas. The PA plan flew well past LGA, so then you have to come back west to get to the airport. NYC is the most expensive in the world per mile, and this would be no exception. This idiocy had to be stopped.

Screw PANYNJ. Photobug is right; the LGA AirTrain was trash.

Can we please keep the opinions about politicians out of this forum?

This bill is mostly a farce. The vertical top-down oriented way we fund transportation doesn't work. Thousands of projects are overbuilt, overengineered, and not needed in the first place just to meet requirements for some stupid new grant program. My favorite is CMAQ: Congestion Mitigation and Air Quality Improvements. It's meant for congested highways, since idling and stop and go creates emissions, so federal grants are given to states so they can widen highways, which they claim lead to lower emissions. Everyone really knows that that induces more driving, and thus more emissions, and you're at the same congestion you had before in under five years. What a joke.

Transit funding is much the same. We need to fix the infrastructure we have first, not build more so it'll crumble in 50 years. Example: about 10% of structurally deficient bridges in the bill are funded to be replaced or rehabilitated. 10% of over 40,000 bridges but yeah let's go ahead and build more highways, destroy more communities, make more towns go bankrupt!

If y'all don't believe me check out Strong Towns and Not Just Bikes to start. Have fun having your mind blown.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:11 am ...
If Mr. Photobug's reasoning holds, then there's no Gateway as AOC must be "punished" for her "Nay".

Who knows, maybe she is back pushing Lattes' in The Bronx come January '23.

I decided to do some research with Congressional districts: Members of Congress & Congressional District Maps - GovTrack.us - click on a district to see who's currently representing it, and you can zoom in and out, and pan across it, like with Google Maps.

NYC has several Congresspeople representing it, and all but AOC of NY-14 and Jamaal Bowman of NY-16 voted for BIF. That includes Republican Nicole Malliotakis of NY-11: Staten Island and a bit of Brooklyn.

Looking at the city's suburbs, all the Democrats and most Republicans voted for the bill. In Long Island, one has to go to its outer half to find a no vote, from Lee Zeldin of NY-01. In New England, every Rep voted for the bill except Ayanna Pressley of MA-07, in Boston. In upstate New York, one has to go out to the northeastern and central parts of the state before one can find any no votes: Elise Stefanik of NY-21 (NE) and Claudia Tenney of NY-22 (Cen). In New Jersey, the entire state delegation voted for it, including the state's two Republicans, and one has to go into central Pennsylvania and Maryland to find Republicans who voted against it.

NYC's population is equivalent to 7 Reps' districts, and its suburbs equivalent to 8 more Reps' districts, so should one punish the entire region for the actions of 2 out of 15 Congresspeople?

As to AOC, she seems like she'll be running against next year, and if the previous two elections are anything to go by, she'll be hard to beat.

A couple of comments: AOC - Let's be clear, despite what some may want to think, she's smart. And if it had come down to her vote to pass it, most likely would have voted. But, given there were enough GOP votes, it's almost certain that she, with the Speaker's full knowledge and approval voted against it in order to preserve her progressive credentials. (I should add to, that her fight against Amazon was well supported in her district, and given how much Amazon has invested in the NYC area despite not placing H2 there, I've got to say, her and her constituents were probably right on that one). I'll add too, the AirTrain plan that King Cuomo endorsed was crap.

As for Zeldin, he's currently the GOP odds on favorite for the State Gubernatorial race (and let's just say the local letters to the editor about how the GOP should not hold a primary and simply anoint him have amused me. Nothing says democracy like "let's dictate to our party members who they'll vote for"). I don't think he's got any shot at seeing the inside of the Governor's mansion short of a guided tour, but honestly, I think this will hurt him.

And sadly, while when she was first elected I had some hope for Stefanik, she's tossed herself solidly behind Trump. That said, in her district, there's very little Amtrak, and that's not going to change either way.

In the end, they all voted as I expected.

Greg, I wish this forum had a "Like" button. Well said.

Lest we forget volks, AOC could run for the Grand Prize during '24. She will be 35 before Jan 20-25.

Two populists, she and Trump; take your pick.

Closed for review.

We are not the forums of politico.

Okay, let's just keep it to the plan.