Amtrak: Connects US // American Jobs Plan Infrastructure Legislation

eolesen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 2:15 am Oh, that's just hogwash unless you concede that the LD network should have never existed beyond 1971...

The people flying on EAS subsidy routes aren't going from city to city within Montana. They're flying many states away to larger cities served via a geographically close hub. Had you said the argument for regional corridors was stronger, you'd be closer to correct.

I suspect the short term hiring issues for pilots at regional carriers will work itself out in about 6-18 months. United's ab initio academy has been up and running for a while as has American's. Don't know if Delta has one or not.

I see no way for Amtrak to get any new LD routes started that quickly.

I believe that the above is a reasonable analysis. In the short term, this is reported in today's news, and the same could happen to Amtrak's employees: "By The Associated Press

At least three major airlines said they have canceled dozens of flights because illnesses largely tied to the omicron variant of COVID-19 have taken a toll on flight crew numbers during the busy holiday travel season.

U.S.-based Delta Air Lines and United Airlines said they had to cancel dozens of Christmas Eve flights because of staff shortages tied to omicron. United canceled 170 flights, and Delta called off 133, according to FlightAware." https://www.nj.com/news/2021/12/united- ... berty.html

What FlightAware isn't saying is that some of those cancellations took place two and three days ago, giving plenty of time for customers to be rebooked on other flights.

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Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 24, 2021 11:29 am Just curious, would anyone know where this station in reading would be if Amtrak goes through with it? Would RBMN have a connection for their excursion trains?

No idea. I checked on OpenRailwayMap and Reading PA continues to have plenty of active track, and there is an active line between there and Philly. So a Philly - Reading line won't require as much rebuilding as (say) a NYC - Scranton line will.

I thought of copying out all the details of the routes from that Amtrak planning document, but I decided to look at some highlights. RT = round trip.

The best case is lots of passengers with low subsidy per passenger and low infrastructure costs. The winners:

• San Joaquins: cutting back to Merced after CAHSR gets started, and increasing service to Sacramento.
• Dallas - San Antonio: (new) 2 RT's.
• Milwaukee - Madison - Minneapolis / St Paul: (new) 3 RT's
• Cleveland - Columbus - Cincinnati: (new) 3 RT's
• Chicago - Indianapolis: (new) 4 RT's
• Chicago - indianapolis - Louisville: (new) 4 RT's (8 Chi - Ind)
• NYC - Albany: 7 to 8 RT's with reduced trip time
• NYC - Reading: (new) 3 RT's
• NYC - Scranton: (new) 3 RT's
• NYC - Allentown: (new) 2 RT's
• Charlotte - Raleigh - Richmond: (target numbers not stated)
• Orlando - Miami: (new) 2 RT's
• Tampa - MIami: (new) 3 RT's

[/list]

lpetrich wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 1:41 am

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 24, 2021 11:29 am Just curious, would anyone know where this station in reading would be if Amtrak goes through with it? Would RBMN have a connection for their excursion trains?

No idea. I checked on OpenRailwayMap and Reading PA continues to have plenty of active track, and there is an active line between there and Philly. So a Philly - Reading line won't require as much rebuilding as (say) a NYC - Scranton line will.

If they had trackage rights on NS, then yes.
They would need to redouble track in downtown, but it's doable

Scranton NYC has a roadbed. Yes, it needs rebuilding, but the right of way has been put back together, nothing new needed in that sense. And we're talking, what, 20 miles? What would it take for a professional railroad rather than a government morass to get this done quickly and easily, especially with the corruption removed?

One difficulty remaining is getting from Dover to Hoboken or NYP; both the Morris & Essex and the Montclair-Boonton have enough local trains to make it hard to find slots for a nonstop -- which it would have to be to come close to being highway competitive. And on-time eastbound arrivals at Dover are a must; NJT dispatches it, and if a Scranton train shows up out of its slot they're not going to hold the all-stops local scheduled right behind it (the New Rochelle situation without the run-around possibilities on multi-track Metro North). Two or three occasions a month of following a local, and getting later by the minute, would kill ridership. (No need to worry about NYP access -- Gateway will be completed before anything much happens with this.)

Understood. And not a trivial issue.

photobug56 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 8:33 pm Scranton NYC has a roadbed. Yes, it needs rebuilding, but the right of way has been put back together, nothing new needed in that sense. And we're talking, what, 20 miles? What would it take for a professional railroad rather than a government morass to get this done quickly and easily, especially with the corruption removed?

Looks like a brightline opportunity?
Plenty real estate along the way.

Railroad expansion in the 1800's was often financed through land rights given by government. Within reason, well worth considering on some projects. IF the government owns enough land along the ROW.

photobug56 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 8:33 pm Scranton NYC has a roadbed. Yes, it needs rebuilding,

Mr. Bug, a bit more painless to have done it as did I during March '60 - in Miss Phoebe's Obs.

Seven videos in all on the playlist:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... +Roseville

Pass any comment regarding lawfulness of this activity.

https://greensboro.com/news/local/govt- ... 588b0.html

Winston-Salem (NC) officials are wishing they were included in the Asheville route sketch from Connects US.

Based on their behavior in Charlotte related to the proposed commuter rail to North Mecklenburg, NS will never allow any access on their basically abandoned O-Line.

Is there any environmental study ongoing for a new train to Scranton?
No. What we have is an economic study....
https://www.timesleader.com/news/150844 ... nerate-87m
"A proposed railroad passenger route between Scranton and New York would generate $87 million in annual economic activity, plus $2.9 billion from one-time investments, a new economic impact analysis by Amtrak has found."

Let's do some math, $2.9 Billion capital costs / $87 Million yearly economic benefits = 33.33 years to break even. Over 33 years, that's more than the lifespan of any locomotive and about the lifespan of any other rolling stock. All based on 3 round trips per day; assumming morning, midday, and evening runs, and that there are zero cost overruns.

I believe the environmental study was completed years ago. And hopefully there will be both Amtrak and NJT service, and every area between NYC and Scranton along the route will benefit. As to breakeven, that was never the point. Getting fossil fuel vehicles, any vehicles off of I80 alone is a huge help. Making it much easier for NYC residents to vacation in the Poconos through Scranton will be of help. Making commutes easier and safer will help.

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 10:44 pm

photobug56 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 8:33 pm Scranton NYC has a roadbed. Yes, it needs rebuilding, but the right of way has been put back together, nothing new needed in that sense. And we're talking, what, 20 miles? What would it take for a professional railroad rather than a government morass to get this done quickly and easily, especially with the corruption removed?

Looks like a brightline opportunity?
Plenty real estate along the way.

Now there's a thought -- imagine what they could do with the Poconos. South Florida was nothing much until Flagler came along.