New Employee Timetable

Does anybody know why the new employee timetable was enlarged? I'm just curious.

LIRR272 wrote:Does anybody know why the new employee timetable was enlarged? I'm just curious.

So is everyone else. There were some changes made to how train schedules & connections are listed but none of the changes I have seen so far required enlarging it. When I saw the binder I assumed and hoped that it it would be printed in a larger, more user friendly font size (I'm not getting any younger and my eyesight is not getting any better ). But that is not the case, the type is still very small. I was told that the print is slightly larger,well maybe but I don't see it and on such large pages it now looks MICROSCOPIC The only advantage I see is more room for ink changes, which I am sure has nothing to do with it. I understand that a matching Giant Book of Rules and Giant Them manual will be forth comming.Well at least I will be able to save $350 a year in Gym dues since I will be carrying around aprox 70lbs of books 8hrs a day. Maybe Clem can shed some light on the reasons for the Giant Timetable which in my opinion is nothing more then a GIANT waste of RR, and therefore your money since IMHO there was nothing wrong with the size of the old one.

There have been many excuses thrown around for the "improved" timetable size. Actually, the true reason is Metro North. They have a bigger book and anything they do must be better than anything we do.

Thats what happens when management has nothing but contempt for tradition, experience and the poor b**tards who have to go out and do the job every day.

Perhaps they should focus some energy on stopping the signal run throughs that are happening every week?

The new format is a slap in the face of every operating employee who is seeking better and safer working conditions.

I have no idea why they ever changed from the narrow, bound, PRR-style format ETT which worked so well on the LIRR from 1928 until it was replaced by the first 3-ringed binder style in May, 1970

And . . prior to the PRR-style, a similar narrow, bound format was in use 50+ years.

Trainmen and conductors were able to carry this ETT in the large pocket of their uniform jackets. It had the train times. . . it had the block stations and passenger stations . . . it had general instructions . . .. it had a place in the back in which to stick general orders . . .some of the older ones even had a listing of hours of operation of ALL ticket offices! It had locomotive restrictions . . . it showed MAS at all locations . . . it showed extent of electrification, etc., etc.

Trains ran . . .Commuters were carried . . . .things hummed . . . . life went on as usual. All was well with the world . . . .

I guess the MTA/LIRR never heard the old adage: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

Dave

Same with all railroads...NJT and METRO NORTH predecessors all had those book type timetables that fit in the inside breast pocket for handy referal. The larger, ringed binders were thought to be better in that only the pages that need be changed could be when printing time came around. Then the schedules became one book, instructions another, and book of rules another. Progress, in reality should be a palm pilot or blackberryh just for railroad business. Or, for complete convenience, go back to the book inside the inside breast pocket.

I'm not out on the trains yet so I can't make a good judgement, but the management might think that to be productive we have to do more paper work (forgetting that our function is to move trians from one place to another). The railroad seems like it's starting to become like a retail mindset, as far as business and operations are concerned.

On a somewhat seperate note, this is actually a pretty funny coincidence. My previous job was with the New England Central Railroad. Well, when we 1st set up our rule books and timetables during training here on the LIRR, the 1st thing I noticed was how much smaller the books were here than on the NECR. The GCOR rule book that the NECR uses is printed on standard 8x11 sheets and is even thicker than the 3 ring binder I used to have in high school taking different classes all day long. The NECR Timetable was also printed in the same sized paper, but with no big section on schedules like the LIRR, is actually a lot thinner. But still, the now previous LIRR timetable was still a lot more convenient to carry around and yank out for a quick reference if you needed to look back at it.

I agree with all those who say if it ain't broke don't fix it...and also that it's a shame that the management doesn't seem to take feedback from the people actually out on the trains performing the duties every day. I know it was said that these current large timetables wouldn't be recalled anytime soon due to the printing costs to launch it....but I'd imagine that if problems arise from this and if it keeps on meeting opposition that they would eventually go back to the pervious style timetables.

Although in the same note, does anyone here know any Metro-North employees? What kind of feedback are they giving about the timetables they have to use? Do they seem to like them? Do their trains run consistantly and reliably in reference to their timetables?

I just wish when they would print a timetable that there wouldn't be so many mistakes, i spent my lunch hour today making all the ink changes required by General Notice 2-42, Paragraph A.

LIRailfan79 wrote:I just wish when they would print a timetable that there wouldn't be so many mistakes, i spent my lunch hour today making all the ink changes required by General Notice 2-42, Paragraph A.

Whenever we receive new timetables the correction notices begin almost immediately! It's as though no one in the high command even bothers to "proof" these little jewels. I guess it's far easier to distribute first, "proof" later.

The evolution over the years from the PRR style timetable to LIRR was that smaller size for a reason. It was designed so that the crew member holding the timetable could do so with one hand and hang on to something to keep his balance with the other hand since the trains rode a lot rougher! It was also a much handier size being that it could fit right into the breast pocket of Conductors. Can't really do that with the narrow, 3 ring binder style that the LIRR adopted in 1970 and surely can't do that with the current one. Hey if it's good enough for Metro North, what the hell, right?

Joe

Unfortunately, that's the thinking that is bringing the LIRR down to MetroNorth and Subway standards. A traditional innovator, the LIRR in the past 100 years was credited with many, many of the industry's modern developments.

Even as few as fifteen years ago, LIRR employees were known throughout the rail industry as outstanding "can-do" tradesmen. Their mechanics, electricians, locomotive engineers and supervisors were sought by other railroads and suppliers. Even Ringling Brothers actively courted retiring supervisors to come aboard as their trainmasters and carmen. Disney's planning department was filled with LIRR retirees.

It's sad that the railroad's executive management has deteriorated to a level that they resort to imitating others, regardless of their merit, and calling this innovation.

The new, cumbersome timetable format glaringly illustrates this. It might as well be used to beat the pride and respect out of its rank and file workers, by forcing on them just one more unworkable, insulting tool that makes their jobs harder and wastes their time and effort.

Clemuel

Well what if the unions or All/majority of employees governed by the ETT jsut use the old one and ignore the new one and everything in it, simply untill the imcompitant management corrects their mistak, doing it that way, trains will still run as per that ETT and too bad if costomers think that new TTs they pick up are correct becaus the crews can jsut post adds at stations and on trains stating to follow old time tables due to MTA imcompatance. show they thay will reject this stupid and unsafe act, SHOW that whats good for MN and NYCTA is NOT and I mean NOT good for the LIRR. if not a soul speaks up you will get squashed like the bugs on the patio table in the summer.

I don't know how else to say it but does any one working there now have genuine set of brass balls to take action and show that what wrong is wrong? and that LIRR will not let imcompitant persons "derail" their tradition and there status as a railroad?

Just an idea, why not make it so all management must be a cndr/engr before they become manager for atleast 10 years. then all that imcompitancey will be eliminated during the 10 years. thats just an idea to try to save our sorry asses.

There was a time that managers in the Transportation Department were required to have ten to fifteen years' service in the ranks. All that ended when the managers' pay was dropped so low that nobody with experience would apply for the jobs.

The suggestion that employees refuse to honor the applicable timetable smacks of the same absurdity as the spelling of the words which put it forth. (No offense, 7285, Clem just couldn't resist.)

Clemuel

Actually, the RR changed the software they use to produce both the public and employee timetables. That explains the difference in what you see on the web site but I guess it does NOT explain why the ETT is physically larger. And yes, it's a shame the font isn't correspondingly larger for some our (!) slightly older eyes.

I'm just amazed they changed it before issuing Timetable No. 3, rather than in between General Orders.

I know about a year ago the Rules Department was selling special leather-bound timetable binders if you wanted to jazz up your timetable. Bet anyone that plunked down the $30 or so they were selling them for feel like real suckers now!

And for the record, I liked the old timetable better too.

Jay

Long Island 7285 wrote:Well what if the unions or All/majority of employees governed by the ETT jsut use the old one and ignore the new one and everything in it, simply untill the imcompitant management corrects their mistak, doing it that way, trains will still run as per that ETT and too bad if costomers think that new TTs they pick up are correct becaus the crews can jsut post adds at stations and on trains stating to follow old time tables due to MTA imcompatance. show they thay will reject this stupid and unsafe act, SHOW that whats good for MN and NYCTA is NOT and I mean NOT good for the LIRR. if not a soul speaks up you will get squashed like the bugs on the patio table in the summer.

I don't know how else to say it but does any one working there now have genuine set of brass balls to take action and show that what wrong is wrong? and that LIRR will not let imcompitant persons "derail" their tradition and there status as a railroad?

Just an idea, why not make it so all management must be a cndr/engr before they become manager for atleast 10 years. then all that imcompitancey will be eliminated during the 10 years. thats just an idea to try to save our sorry asses.

Simple, because not having a current timetable is a rules violation (See Rule A), and if you are caught you will be taken out of service (i for one enjoy being paid).
also, without the timetable how will the train crew know what stops to make and when?