New Employee Timetable

Don't worry, I have seen the new MN ETT and was wondering why we went to the large book... no one seems to have the answer.

-otto-

Otto Vondrak wrote:Don't worry, I have seen the new MN ETT and was wondering why we went to the large book... no one seems to have the answer.

-otto-

So MNRR has recently changed their timetable from a smaller format as well?

Clem wrote:There was a time that managers in the Transportation Department were required to have ten to fifteen years' service in the ranks. All that ended when the managers' pay was dropped so low that nobody with experience would apply for the jobs.l

I guess that's why the manegers are more followers than leaders now. If they came into the management position with 10-15 years of railroad experience under their belts they might actually have the balls to still be innovative.

You mention pay being a factor....how much lower is it now than it used to be? What are the chances of someone getting into a high position with actual on the job experience these days and actually changing things to put it back on the right track?

What I was meaning was not so much in voilation of rule A but rather as a full dept protest of the neglagance. if the entire dept went off and simply followed the previous ETT then there would be no change?

Im only saying this in terms to take actions against stupidity form upstairs.
I see it as a lack of feeling that its OK to stand up for whats right, and what you want and a whole, for example if their are 1000 employees in the transpoeration dept, and 800 wanted the old ETT as opposed to the new one, why does no one stand up and simply refuse the actions, by being in a union is'nt that what a union is soposed to do or are they just out to take our money? Honostly I realy dont know on this so if you's can help me I do apricate it.

Clem,
I have'nt been useing the spell check lately. there are just some words I can't spell and many others that I simply typo.

The cut in pay is substantial for someone who has 15 years or more senority. The more senority you have, the more money you can make as a conductor. You can work the list and cover an overtime job every day if you choose, and work your days off ahead of people with less senority. I have worked for the railroad for almost 33 years, and the changes I have seen in management are astounding. 33 years ago you might not have liked a boss, but you respected him because he was a railroader, and knew his stuff. The job was based on merit, not political correctness. Today I am forced to be lectured by people who are sometimes just a few years out of college who were not even born when I started working there. This in my opinion is the biggest problem on the RR. Instead of respect for the senior members, there is harrasement. About 3 years ago, a train broke down in one of the tunnels leading into Penn Station. I was on a drill crew at the time, and my engineer was #1 on the roster. We heard what was going on and knew from our experience what it would take to move the train out of the tunnel. We figured we could get that train moving in a few mins, and we went into the stationmasters office to offer our assistance. The supervisior in charge told us to "go sit down and shut up". That train sat in the tunnel loaded with passengers for over 2 and a half hours and no one lost their jobs. Do you think I will ever speak up again?
Lets consider this, over the years I have worked passenger, freight, drill crews. roustabouts, diesel, electric, etc.
Yet my experience and knowledge amount to nothing in the minds of management. My imput is never asked for.
Meanwhile...trains are running signals, trains are derailing, engines have run away, sideswipes, M1's getting scalped, trains are blowing stations
BUT..............
As long as we make the litter announcements, and make sure we punch the blocks on punch day, all is well in the world.
The timetable debacle is another example. The chief transportation officer and General superintendent-transportation had NO IDEA what was comming because the decisions were made by another department.
The very operation of the railroad is being taken out of their hands!!
It must be like this everywhere because the comic strip dilbert sounds an awful lot like the RR.
I always loved working for the Railroad, but I am starting to realize that there is no place for someone who tries to do their job, and genuinely love his job.
The sad joke around the railroad is "if you do your job right, you get in trouble"

Having worked for Metro-North for four years before returning to Conrail
for the last ten years of my career, I feel qualified to comment on the
subject of Metro-North here.
You people on the LIRR would probably be quite comfortable with the
Metro-North format if you were using it. The schedule pages are in
leaflet form and they will fit quite well in a jacket or shirt pocket, with your
complex lines, you would likely have to carry more than two of them but
it would be easier than trying to check your current timetable for times etc.
On my trips last summer riding the LIRR, I could not help but notice that
some of the people were using public timetables instead of the employee
timetable for station times, I don't see much problem with that one as
long as the times are the same but it would be a better situation if the
LIRR people could use employee leaflets for this purpose rather than
public timetables. When I had regular jobs, I made up a 3 by 5 card with
the stations, trains and times as this was much easier than trying to dig
out the timetable to watch the time.
Currently, Metro-North uses eight different leaflets, on the Harlem and
New Haven they use a separate weekday leaflet in each direction and one
weekend leaflet while the Hudson is somewhat lighter and they only use
one weekday leaflet and one weekend leaflet. These leaflets were very
easy to use and you had the train information right in your shirt pocket.
As for having the whole timetable in your pocket, I do not think that is
generally necessary, you should be qualified on the characteristics of the
railroad and on the timetable special instructions and rules etc, if not, you
probably have more problems than I care to discuss here.
Incidentally, I don't know how many "old timers" are on here but some of
you might recall that the LIRR put out a different book for the New Haven
employees who ran in and out of Bay Ridge on the LIRR. The book had
the special instructions and station pages for the entire railroad but had
no schedule pages. We had to put in all of the general orders but did not
have to bother with the schedule pages.
I well remember the "lick em and stick em" pages of the old PRR days and
hated that task. I thought the loose leaf style was basically an
improvement although the timetable was not as good a collectable, it was
a better working document for a railroader.
You people were and are lucky, in the New Haven Railroad days we had to
carry New Haven, Pennsylvania, New York Central and Long Island
rulebooks, timetables and all the other required gear every trip. Going to
Boston we also had to carry stuff for the Boston Terminal.
Here is the best one, Amtrak crews out of Albany have to carry Amtrak,
Metro-North, CSX, Canadian National and the Vermont Railway books, I
wonder how much all of this stuff weighs?
Noel Weaver

Thanks, you cleard some of it up for me.

This may sound difficuly or crazy, but how in any way can the persons of seniority and real true knowlege and passion for the job walk on this and just assume control.

when too much politics gets involved, I feel that a rebellion is necessary. if the rebellion is done right can it reseult in a rude awakening for the unrealisitc management actions?

for that train you mentions about in NYP. what if you and the #1 man on the list said you can get this undercontrol in Xmin's and just shut up watch and learn to do the job the right way, so next time you learn. and you and your man went out did it, got the train runnin fine, and walk back up and said see, you said to shut up and we did something we could not have done for our sallery payers if I were to listen to imcompatance. jsut prove the hell out of them being wrong, then when they threten you with being fired, thats when you get the union on there rears and thats when the lawsuite can come in? What else can really be done from thoes in the know? if you can't rebell and stand up for whats right and to truely help your sallery payers, then what the hell can you do. if you pay a union due why the hell can't they shake some apples out of the trees?

Lirr Condr, is that really true? The CTO and GST had no idea what was coming out of timetables regarding size and format?

UN, regarding the new software prompting a change in size..is it impossibe for the LIRR to purchase software that "fits" the company instead of changing the company to fit the software?

To delve into this a bit deeper:

Yes, the software that created the old employees timetable was outdated and no longer supported. Its files were not compatible with anything else, making exporting schedules to TIMACS (the block operators' train reporting system) or Solari (destination sign) impossible.

The timetable is now produced on a word processor based system. The group driving for a new format told a committee that "the new system will not handle the existing (old) size format". As only the most useless, dispensible and stupid people from each department were put on the committee, they believed what they were told. They were also told that it was impossible to put connecting train destinations on each schedule -- another mistruth.

And of course the CTO and GST had knowledge of the new format. Frankly, neither liked the new design but neither would step up and take a stand against it. Out of respect, I'd say they must pick and choose their battles.

As far as management salaries go -- a veteran employee would have to suffer a $40,000 - $50,000 annual cut in pay to take management position, along with losing a week's vacation, paying toward his medical benefits, working additional hours and losing the right to pick his assignements.

If he has knowledge and stands up for what he knows is correct, he will be ridiculed and criticized for not being a "team player" and for not giving in to the ideas of his "diverse" collegues who are much better at "thinking outside of the box".

There are those in management who care and do their part every day. But they must walk a thin line and make many personal sacrifices to get things done. But that's called skill, wisdom and patience. There's no over abundance of that here.

Clemuel

Speaking for myself, it is not a matter of likeing or disliking, yes I preferred the old format because it was smaller and could fit more easily in a bag or backpack, but as long as it contains the information I need to do my job (which btw it did not, until corrected by another GO) the size of it doesn't really matter.
What I don't understand is why, with the parent company constantly crying poverty, spend what I am sure is a absurd amount of money to change something for no reason.

Another note on timetable format. We have talked about the old LIRR/PRR and "other" road's standard breast pocket employee's timetable. But it just occured to me tha both the NYC, NH, and B&M used a larger size format: thinner but at least twice the demensions. One thing to remember is that railroad's operations are steeped in tradition. Today, for some like MetroNorth, the ETT format is an outgrowth of their format while it's introduction to the LIRR is completely foreign. It is a tried and true format just new to the LI. It would be the same if the LIRR format was introduced new to Metro North. Tradition: its what you're used to.

While the NYC, B&M, etc. used the wider format, it was soft-covered, and most of the railroad men of that era folded it long-wise and stuck it in their uniform jacket pockets.

Dave

Goodness! Amazing what one question leads to!

This whole management vs. rank and file thing unfortunately is happening all throughout the industry. It's no different on, for example, the UP and CSX from what I've heard.

Someone here mentioned having the TT on a handheld PC, or PDA. I sort of have that already, which of course, I had to create myself. Do you guys remember the pre-MTA public timetables? After 1965 when the "system" Form A timetable was no longer printed, we had Forms B through E (?, memory's fading!). I know one contained the Main Line (just to KO) and all of its branches and one contained the Montauk Branch (albeit just to Patchogue) and all of its branches. I made two spreadsheets that essentially shows this with the previous Dec 2005 timetable. Both files are pretty small and easily fit on my PDA. There is a separate column for every train and I do not bother showing connecting times. The only stuff missing, which is considerable, are the equipment trains and the non-station time points. That said, it's awfully handy. I haven't updated it for GO 205 but I'll get around to it.

If anybody would like copies of these files, just contact me in a PM.

Clem, is it easy to output the new ETT in other electronic formats such as comma-separated-values? If so, it would then be painfully easy to have the entire ETT in a PDA, which EASILY fits in a shirt pocket!

UN Block wrote:If so, it would then be painfully easy to have the entire ETT in a PDA, which EASILY fits in a shirt pocket!

Keep in mind that PDAs can break or malfunction or simply just have the battery die; having this happen out on the road would be a danger to passengers and crew alike. It is old-fashioned, but paper ETTs have been around since the beginning and always worked fine, its impossible for them to malfunction or anything of the sort. Like they say, "if it isn't broke, don't fix it!"

168,

True, true...