M-8 Cars - Delivery and Acceptance

Otto Vondrak wrote:...If the M-8's carry through the styling presented in these drawings, then they will have much more visual appeal. Yes, that appeal is also important to the customer (though they may not voice it or know how to express it).

It's not nearly as important as being able to ride for 90 minutes without being squeezed into small, uncomfortable seats - some with low backs. I suspect most commuters, unlike most railfans, would gladly ride in a train that looked like a plain box as long as they could have 2x2 seating with enough leg room for modern American adults.

If you have followed the post and news articles on the M-8's you will find mention that the seats will be wider than the M-7's and even the M-2's
You won't see 2x2 seating for several reasons discussed to death here.
So why are we getting all huffy about stuff we have not seen yet.
And were was every one's input at Commuter council meetings ???
just like blogger some people take wrong course of action to bring improvements, don't go to a railfan site go to proper authorities its your taxmoney that will pay for this stuff.
ill betya not to many members of public were there at meeting yesterday:


AGENDA




Wednesday May 17, 2006 - 7:00 pm

SACIA, 1 Landmark Sq., Stamford CT





1) Approval of the April minutes



2) Presentation by MNRR Pres. Peter Cannito

i. Q&A with Council members

ii. Q&A with members of the public





OLD BUSINESS:



1) Report on bids for new M8 cars MNRR



2) Milford station construction Mr. DiSalvo / CDOT



3) New CT Budget & Rail Ops CDOT



4) Equipment update CDOT / MNRR

- Used Amtrak Loco’s, new locos, VRE Cars, M2 CSR program



5) Stamford Station Garage Update CDOT / Mr. Maron



6) Other







NEW BUSINESS:



1) Monthly operations report – April; MNRR



2) “Meet The Commuter” event Mr. Cameron



3) Other





Next Meeting: Wednesday June 14 - 7:00 pm

SACIA, One Landmark Sq., Stamford CT

IMHO, there is nothing more uncomfortable than being jammed into a coach class airline seat.

Any passenger rail seating accomodations I have experienced alwys seem generous in comparison to coach class airline travel-unless one is willing to endure a large upcharge for 'business class.'

JFD

Noticed this in the March 2006 minutes of the Connecticut Rail Commuter Council:

There was further discussion of whether or not the M-8s would be able to operate through Penn Station and into New Jersey. The issue is the different A.C. voltages and cycles between Boston and New Jersey, and the probable need for an additional transformer on the cars to enable them to operate everywhere. Bob Jelley and Joe McGee suggested that the issue is a trade-off between being able to operate into New Jersey or being able to operate beyond New Haven to Boston. Mr. Colonese agreed. Mr. McGee noted that the Hell Gate route from New Rochelle over the Hell Gate Bridge to the Long Island Railroad in Queens would permit three new stations proposed in the Bronx, including Co-op City.

I don't understand the need for an additional transformer...why can't you just have automatic tap changing transformers? Plenty of trains use that.

*shrug*

Sounds more like political excuses than reality.

Most AC powered MUs outside of the M 2/4/6 cars have multivoltage/frequency transformers. I think the M-2s can do 25hz and maybe 25kv too.

Frequency requires no tap changes, voltage does. Historically (in the US), this is done via dual primary windings - on 11kv /12.5kv, the two windings are hooked up in parrallel to each other, for 25kv, they are in series. The changer itself is generally inside the transformer tank, and you have a vacuum breaker that pops open before swapping and closes afterwards. The M cars don't have breakers (hence the ever popular arc when dropping pans), the Arrows and Silverliner IVs do...

The issue is not necessarily need for an additional transformer, but for a physically larger one in order to operate through Penn Station and into New Jersey.

The M-8 cars when in dc operating territory, will be supplied power by the contact rail (third rail) system. The contact rail system voltage conditions are defined as follows:

a) Nominal: 650 Vdc (900-400 Vdc)


When in ac territory, power will be supplied to the vehicle by an overhead catenary system.

The vehicles shall be capable of operation on two different catenary supply voltage systems, defined as follows:

a) Nominal: 12,500 V/60 Hz (15,000 V/60 Hz to 8,750 V/60 Hz)
b) Nominal: 25,000 V/60 Hz (30,000 V/60 Hz to 17,500 V/60 Hz)


In addition Metro-North is requiring M-8 cars which are operationally compatible with Amtrak’s Northeast Corridor west of Pennsylvania Station New York. Compatibility in this area must include provisions for propulsion and auxiliary power operation on the nominal 12 kV, 25 Hz catenary supply;

Due to the fact that the size of the iron core required for the transformer is dependant on the frequency, the size of transformer will increase significantly due to the reduced frequency west of New York

So, looks like the M8 batch will be 3-2 seating. I wonder of the seating color will be red like I saw in the artist's rendition. These cars will be good for riding hopefully, and the Bar Car should be a bit better then the ones on the M2's, which by the way the m8 will be replacing.

Also, I think the M8s will sport a new full-width cab, with a railfan window, although it'll be more like an R68 or so, since the raifan window may have that filtered material.

M8 will be like the M7 with the shutter behind the window on the door leading to the cab.

The MNCR M-7's do not have a shutter but the glass is tinted in a green color and cab door is labeled " Do not block this Door)" so nobody obstructs emergency egress.
The M-8's will be same.

Oh good, maybe we'll be able to see out front like the R68s, R44-R46s. And "Do Not Block This Door" is better than "DO NOT LEAN AGAINST DOOR" and "NO PASSING THROUGH" like MBTA cars.

But in all, the M8 will have far better superior quality for riding when they debut, although I'll miss the M2s a bit.

How can you know the ride quality of M-8's when non have been built yet ??

Well, since they are the same (almost) as the M7s, they should be fine when constructed.

From what is known about the as yet unbuilt M8s, they will be VERY different from M7s. Both MNRR and CDOT are getting rid of what they don't like about the M7s and including things that are not in the M7s as well like better seats, bar cars, wider car bodies and so on.

I hope this is true. Who's crazy idea was it to make the M-7 Seats narrower?! They were too narrow to begin with. All in all, the M-7's just feel smaller inside, despite being bright and clean.


Still lookin' at '08 for the beginning of the new deliveries?

The schedule for "delivery" of the fisrt 50 M8s is "3rd Quarter 2008". Considering the bulider has yet to be announced, I'd call that "schedule" optimistic!!!