M-8 Cars - Delivery and Acceptance

Nice to finally get a peek at the new cars. But man, they're ugly. Those vertical top headlights mess them up. Otherwise, they look pretty much like I expected them to.

Yes Jayman, they are indeed ugly from at least the front. It looks more like a glorified subway train than what one might expect. I'd like to see what Siemens design teams could come up with. These new Bombies abandon aerodynamic designs totally.

Dutch, saying it's half full regarding the M-7 really hits the nail on the head and I couldn't have said it better myself. And thanks for procuring and uploading those shots for us to preview!

We've got a new train, and the majority are telling people they can't stand up straight between the seats, and prefer the older trains. This so far is falling on deaf ears at MTA, as usual. I was just as surprised as you are to find I was in the majority on this one.

That's a shiny new train with a big flaw. You drive them, I have to ride them and deal with that design flaw that you don't. Given time, you will intricately know whatever technical flaws develop, as with any new system that the rest of us would never see, feel or hear.

The M-7 aisle may have another inch in width, but it's still a manouver to get around someone or a crowd during the departure window. I still miss the aisle space of the 2X2 seating in the old Central coaches (but not their lack of AC!). Perhaps if seating had never gone to three-and-two with a narrower aisle, ever wonder if Colin Ferguson might have been subdued sooner than he was?

UpperHarlemLine4Ever also has hit home with his observations, which spark even more questions about how things are done.

Designed by LIRR - More proof about who won out in the "Merger". The stepchild of Pennsy wins out over the stepchild of The Central once more, isn't that a quirk of fate? Why wasn't there any input from Mainland New York?

Another interesting speculation is wondering what kinds of suggestions and observations the crew in La Pocatiere made in the planning stages which were rejected?

RONKONKOMA IS NEXT, WATCH THE CLOSING DOORS!

Dieter/

i think the M8 cars look great. i jus saw the on track magazine today while working at the P.A console. they look pretty good i think. Gotta like em n e way, soon they will be the face of the New Haven. ENJOY YOUR RAILFAN WINDOWS WHILE U CAN! EITHER THAT OR BECOME TRAIN OR ENGINE SERVICE!

MNRR PA OPERATOR

RAILROADERS DO IT
DAY AND NIGHT
METRO-NORTH 4 LIFE

What would you guys do differently if you were designing the M8?

Give the poor thing a proper nose. Something curved, asthetic, aerodynamic, soft. Make it look like a train rather than a coach, then again, it's an MU, and I do understand the functionality of the design. It would be too costly to make it and operate having a definate appearance of being the front of a train.

The first time I saw an 1100, it looked like a train in reverse, say for the large headlight over the door they used to have. It would be interesting to know the impressions of the people who witnessed the first MU's pulling in on the Central and the Lackawanna. "Where's the locomotive??"

The "F" Unit design was "On Track" when it came to appearance, and brought the Streamliner Age screaming down the tracks. Look at Mag Lev cab designs. No doubt there's a cab at both ends, and it looks sharp.

The Profile of the M-7 is sleek, the skin is shiny. It's just the Bombardier LRC coach with two sliders cut into the sides and a polished finish rather than paint. It's the Head Shot I can't take. It's a subway.

Dieter/

Neither the LIRR or MNRR design ANY of their passenger equipment.

Anyone remember the first MTA chair, Dr. (PhD) William Ronan ? He was the driving force behind the complete re-think of passenger equipment that resulted in the M-1 series commuter cars.

In order to do so, he brought in a group of consulting firms who actually wrote the specs and did the conceptual drawings that became the 'Metropolitans' and 'Cosmopolitans.' The LIRR had no such capability and the various operations that comprise MN today were all in the hands of PC.

I'll bet a steak dinner (at Peter Luger) that Klauder handled all the M-series projects. I'd also suspect that CDOT, who paid the freight, specified an external look that would differentiate from MTA spec'ed equipment.

Hello *istDS!

Sorry, you're right. What I should have said was that LIRR made the design selection, not that they made the actual design.

Bombardier saved themselves Beau Coups by utilizing the basic LRC shell design, rather than fabricating a different and all new body. I wonder if that savings was passed on to the MTA?

D/

Other than the shape, no part of car body is simular than LRC. the LRC has end vestibules, the body design of the M-7 has 4 individual load carrying door pockets, comparing the drawings you find nothing in common other than center sill and collision post and even those are beefier on M-7's.

If you put a nose on an MU, then it makes it harder to close couple and to allow egress between cars. Think of the Subway's "slant-40's" the R-40's with those huge slanted noses- and the rigs it takes to facilitate movement between the cars...

Exactly, these are MU's that need to function as such. As railfans, we'd love a design breakthrough like the FL-9 look or the GG-1, but these aren't locomotives. We haven't even seen the inside yet which is where the passengers will ride, which is what this is all about. For the record, I think the cars look distinctive and I'm happy that they're going for a slightly different look than the M7/a. And yes, we still need to get a peek at the bar cars, too.

Besides, look at what we have now:
http://www.madre-de-dios.org/gallery/d/8491-2/M1_01.jpg
http://www.madre-de-dios.org/gallery/d/ ... +River.jpg

While I'm no fan of the M7's, one item of information from the recent MNRR commuter meeting was that the M7's cost on the order of $1.7M apiece. The M6's cost almost twice that, due in part to the extra power system, but also due to the much smaller number of cars ordered. Teaming up with LIRR's order did mean serious cost savings for MNRR - keep that in mind.

NH Chris

Fred G wrote:What would you guys do differently if you were designing the M8?

Create an additional interior design model with 2x2 seating and setup a new business class fair model for those runs. I think many daily business travelers would pay extra for the delight of a rational amount of leg room.

Ditto on that. Otto and I have said in the past that we would pay premium for "Business Class", "Lounge Service", "Club Service" or whatever you would want to call it.

They should try it. If it succeeded, we're all happy, they make money. It fails after six months, it shuts us all up and we can write about it for thirty years.

Dieter/

Dieter wrote:Ditto on that. Otto and I have said in the past that we would pay premium for "Business Class", "Lounge Service", "Club Service" or whatever you would want to call it.

They should try it. If it succeeded, we're all happy, they make money. It fails after six months, it shuts us all up and we can write about it for thirty years.

Dieter/

Oh, and next thing you know there will be a sleeper next to the bar car.

Before we put entire long distance train together lets stick with the Commuter train and its one and only specialty car the Bar car.
Here is proposed version of Bar car: