Little Neck Quiet Zone

There is a similar discussion going on on the New England thread...and there have been many, many on all threads in the recent past. Several of my thoughts include the fact that it is the generation of sound and chemical stimulation (constant music stimulation, especially with a heavy beat; those seeking large quantities of caffiene daily) who are now complaining of railroad grade crossing horns. By the same token...and for the same reasons...auto and truck cabs are soundproofed but filled with super stereo sound systems, drivers have cell phones, even with headphones, computers and other distractions while sipping their double laced caffiend drinks; when approaching a railroad crossing, it doesn't matter how many times or how loud the train horn is, they just won't hear it anyway!

Something else has to be done.

Perhaps a grade crossing system that is of red strobe darts forming a red curtain across the tracks 10 feet high would make them stop? I'm not an engineer (electrical or mechanical, nor do I drive a train!) but somewhere out there there must be someone with a new idea.

Henry, not withstanding all the over-stimulation in today's world, there is no way an approaching driver or pedestrian is not aware of crossing signal activation. Multiple bright red flashing lights, combined with striped gate arms in motion and ringing bell. No way that violators aren't aware of what they're doing. Accidents are the victims' own fault; period.

I always thought the spike strip idea was cool put a spike strip on the oppisite side of the gates, but safe enough to allow a car to clear the Xing, you go over, you get flats, you cause traffic to all others behind you, you not only have to pay a sumons payable it a reasonable ammount to the LIRR BUT you have to repair all damages caused to your car.

What you think? 4 tires are not cheep, nor would a Penelty payable to the LIRR based on a %Age of the indivisuals annual income.

These idiots don't deserve to live there. Put them on some island in the middle of nowhere and leave them be. Out of sight and out of mind.

Sheesh, you guys are geting all emotional about this! Remember Nelson's Dictum: there is no such thing as a problem; there are only unmet business opportunities. Instead of whinging, figure out how you can make money here!

All the money is here, It's "Long Island"

When ill all the poor and middle class be "voted off" by these money jockeys and the island becomes an estate for the money jockeys and the rich and famous. were getting closer.

It's pain and simple. these money jockeys have nothing better to do with them selves other then complain about the LIRR. and to have good PR the LIRR really cannot "say" any thing because it will make them look bad.

I say make a bill, make it a law, LIRR has a list of "firsts" why not add to it and be the "first" to make it a crime punishable by time in the slammer for going around the lowered gates. if they can use cameras at red lights to catch people takeing the light, then they shure as hell can use cameras at RR xing to photograph tags coing over the tracks. send them a nice sumons in the mail, with the photo, then the next time they get a visit from the DT with some cuff's and a night in the clinker.

No, 7285, you're still thinking about this the wrong way. Don't counter them force for force! I assume that they have more political power than you, so if you try that, you'll just get another LIE Westbury exit (there is none) situation. Even Robert Moses wasn't able to get his way.

You must be clear on what problem you are solving. Are you worried about getting blood on your train from the messy death of some idiot who crosses in front of you knowing that you're there? If so, then you can blow your horn all day long; you can whistle frickin' dixie if you want; the moron already knows you're there. The solution to this problem doesn't involve whistle-blowing.

Or are you worried that somebody isn't going to realize that the train is there and go through an ungated at-grade crossing in spite of the <BLINK>RED LIGHTS</BLINK>? But there aren't any; not on that branch of the LIRR, and maybe not anywhere in the LIRR. Are you worried about a Miss Deaf Texas situation (not that whistle-blowing helped her any)? Where somebody is trespassing on foot on railroad property and doesn't realize that a train is coming? Extra whistle-blowing will probably be caused by the engineer's adrenaline and not by any FRA rules.

So, if the ROW is fenced off, the crossings are signalled and gated, and thus anybody within striking range of a train is a congenital idiot, why are you worried about whistle-blowing at all? Except that of course the FRA requires it?

Please get me right here. I'm not being facetious. I want to see a defintion of the problem you perceive will be caused by less whistle-blowing.

I don't want to cause less whistel blowing, tis perfictly fine the way it tis. my previous post was about stiffining penelties for going around or under "lowered" gates or paseing "flashing lights" I these neighboor hoods where these people are whistling dixi over a simple 14L, most seem to have the money to pay a stiff fine for their act of pure stupidity. Why should we (the tax payer) you and I included, be forced to pay these people off via increased taxes and fares because or dyeing and corrupt government will let 100% stupidity win over common sence.

They are fast at cracking down on DWI and Seat belts, why not be fast on this? did not enough people die yet? did they law suites not reach a profaine amount that it needs affermitive action?

thoese are questions not answers or ideas.

no matter what, the trains are there and were there firt many years before some of these cry babies were even sperm flakes and eggs. What makes one thing that the LIRR should even considder to listen to their nonsence.
no 14L at corssings, + lack of common inteligance+ simple stupidity= increase in deaths at the corssing and MORE LAW SUITES= ME AND YOU PAYING MORE.

Head-end View wrote:Henry, not withstanding all the over-stimulation in today's world, there is no way an approaching driver or pedestrian is not aware of crossing signal activation. Multiple bright red flashing lights, combined with striped gate arms in motion and ringing bell. No way that violators aren't aware of what they're doing. Accidents are the victims' own fault; period.

If this were true there would be no grade crossing problems. I can tell you so many stories of vehicles being driven not just around gates with tall the bells, whistles and lights, but also around lines of traffic and the gates with all the bells, whistles and light, in front of, into and under trains. To say accidents are the victims' own fault is easy to say, but the real problem is if the driver is distracted by noise, music, hot coffee, screaming kids, cell phone calls, shaving or applying make up, drunk or on drugs, the waters get murkey. Despite all the efforts of education, driver training, public service announcments and advertsiements, signage and warnings, grade crossing accidents still happen. A new form of protection has to be put at these crossings. Would a curtain of strobe or laser lights or a concrete wall lifted or dropped into place on the roadway do it?

The right way or what a preceive to be the right way to approach any RRxing would be to slow up/stop open your window a bet and lower/shut the radio, and pocede with caution approachin the crossing prepared to stop.

now most will argue it becaus if it is protected why show precaution but you never know when, or what direction a train is comeing from and you never know when the protection may fail. Most importantly, the TRAINS ALWAYS have ROW over any Highway,road,street, even the fire and police have to stop and wait.

I seen a picture once (I don't remember if it were LI or not) but a big sign that said STOP LOOK LISTEN, TRAINS COME IN BOTH DIRECTIONS.
It may be costly but maybe the "diamond" signs should be brought back? or an archway over the road. If the signs there they have no complaint

henry6 wrote:A new form of protection has to be put at these crossings. Would a curtain of strobe or laser lights or a concrete wall lifted or dropped into place on the roadway do it?

Perhaps more timely gating? If the gate is only down when there is an actual hazard, then people will not get impatient. If the gate goes down, and a train comes through within 30 seconds (generally regarded as people's conception of "forever"), then people will strongly associate "gate" with "hazard".

I speculate that because of various FRA rules regarding signalling, the gates stay down when a train is merely present in the protected block. Maybe more sophistication is necessary? Maybe an engineer could override the gate by holding down a button. People don't forget continuous muscular exertion, so the engineer won't forget to let go of the button before leaving the station.

Long Island 7285 wrote:The right way or what I perceive to be the right way to approach any RRxing would be to slow up/stop open your window a bet and lower/shut the radio, and pocede with caution approachin the crossing prepared to stop.

Risk is consequence times probability. The risk to the general public of failed signalling varies. Propane trucks stop and listen. Busses stop and listen. Handicap vehicles (ambulettes) stop and listen. Individual automobiles don't bother to stop and listen.

"Individual automobiles don't bother to stop and listen." A because it's not a law for them to stop, Why? It "speeds up the speed of traffic" and "the gates will come down when a train comes" Sence they don't bother to stop, it's stated right there, the RR shoud "don't bother to give the accident attenion in terms of financial award to the "loose nut behind the wheel".

7285: Oooohhhhhh, lots of interesting statistics from Kansas here:
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00038936.htm . The
statistics that seem interesting for this discussion are:

83% occurred in rural areas.
10% of the drivers were drunk (possibly more, but not likely so).
13% drove around or through crossing gates.
66% had only crossbucks.
10% of the drivers view was obstructed.
10% were struck by a train on the other tracks.

But note that Kansas has a death rate four times the national average, so these statistics are not representative.

7285: posting again in reply to the same post. People die all the time on American highways, to the tune of 40K per year. About 500 of them are due to auto/train collisions. That's less than 2%. How many of these deaths are due to failed signalling? I don't know, but I'd speculate "almost none". I'd further speculate that slowing and/or stopping before a railroad crossing is just as likely to cause an auto-auto collision as it is to prevent an auto-train collision.

So I'd say that the proper course for preventing those 500 yearly deaths is "How do we get people to respect existing active signalling" rather than "Let's have everybody ignore the active signalling and pretend that a train may arrive at any time."