LIRR Zip Cars

Why the name?

They were fast. Needed a good name for the worlds fair probably.

tjensen wrote:They were fast. Needed a good name for the worlds fair probably.

Fast compared to what? Or purely "marketing whimsy"?

nyandw wrote:

tjensen wrote:They were fast. Needed a good name for the worlds fair probably.

Fast compared to what? Or purely "marketing whimsy"?

The grungy and pathetic MP54s and MP70s

I never ran them as MUs, but I did after they were converted to push pull. The oldtimers told me they were "zip" cars because the braking system was different from the other MU cars, causing the train to "zip" upon a brake application of a unit train of these cars or a commingled set of equipment with these cars in the consist. They were referring to what was also felt upon a brake application on a push-pull train with commingled converted cars. It felt as if the zip cars in the consist would not react to the brake application at the same time as the rest of the train, as if the train would "zip ahead" before the train felt as if you had it under control. When we went out on the road with a train, you would look back from the engine on a curve to see how many low roofs were in the consist, therefor determining how much brake to use for stopping. All zips had lower rooflines than the other cars. Zip cars= 2700 series. Other converted MUs= 2800 series. Electric Heat= 2900 series (not push pull).
At least that is what I was led to believe, but the performance aspect I can recount as true.

The MP72s were around 10 years old by the time the Worlds Fair came around. They would've lost some "zing" by that point. The motors would've aged a bit due to hauling rush hour trains and deferred maintenance.

Other (Possible) reasons why the MP75s got their name:

1. The LIRR needed rich old ladies to ride on the "fast train" after a ride on the rather impressive Pennsy GG1s (The R32 "Brightliners")
2. Railfans/employees/everyday commuters affectionately call them the "zip cars" as a nickname. The practice of nicknaming trains (And especially planes) is a rather common occurence (The P54 "Pings" or "Ping-Pong"s, the 4400 "Washboards")
3. A group of MP75s grouped up together in the Hillside Yard decided to come up with a catchy nickname

Hillside was a freight yard back then. No third rail there at all, except on the main for the station. (ML 4 and ML3)

452 Card wrote:Hillside was a freight yard back then. No third rail there at all, except on the main for the station. (ML 4 and ML3)

Whoops. I forgot my facts again (Dammit I'm horrible with yards! ). Make that the Babylon Yard.

The zip cars as I remember back in 1988 and before until they were retired had composition brake shoes . The upper 2700's like 2777 to 2799 and the 2800's had the cast iron brake shoes. Try riding a zip car riding over the trucks going through Mineola at 65 MPH That is a real real bounce ride, you almost come out of your seat!!!

It had to do with the Brake system as 452 said. They did not work well with other MU's when coupled together, causing a lot of bouncing around with the slack. What chris said was true, they bounced like crazy. Once going through queens interlocking going east, I was thrown to the floor on one while riding over the truck. They were horrible. I saw a video of one going through Mineola, it was bouncing like a basketball, Ill try and find it. While I am looking, I found this video. On a few occasions I had said one could tell the difference in sound with Engine 277. It was louder and a higher pitch. Not sure if this is 277, but it sure sounds like it, at the 603 mark. Cant make the engine number out, but it sure sounds like 277.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5iFJq6_bR8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not related to the zip car question but worth mentioning since brought up.. the second order of the E20s were delivered from EMD with the same Nathan P5A's that the E15s had for some time, which is what you hear in this video. The horn on the 277 that Doc is referencing is an early Nathan K5LA that was applied in early 1978 (actual production started in '77) that gave off the nice higher-pitched sound that Doc mentions, whereas the rest of the K5LAs that the 38s and 1500s got weren't cast and weren't applied until a few years later, thus the difference in sound. It's a shame there aren't many clips out there of the 277 while it still had that early K5, it was a nice one...

Doc Emmet Brown wrote:It had to do with the Brake system as 452 said. They did not work well with other MU's when coupled together, causing a lot of bouncing around with the slack. What chris said was true, they bounced like crazy. Once going through queens interlocking going east, I was thrown to the floor on one while riding over the truck. They were horrible. I saw a video of one going through Mineola, it was bouncing like a basketball, Ill try and find it. While I am looking, I found this video. On a few occasions I had said one could tell the difference in sound with Engine 277. It was louder and a higher pitch. Not sure if this is 277, but it sure sounds like it, at the 603 mark. Cant make the engine number out, but it sure sounds like 277.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5iFJq6_bR8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Doc: Those were the days...It amazes me knowing that almost all of this pictured equipment is gone from the LIRR today...
Only the MP15s and NYAR's GP38's remain today...

MACTRAXX

tjensen wrote:The MP72s were around 10 years old by the time the Worlds Fair came around. They would've lost some "zing" by that point. The motors would've aged a bit due to hauling rush hour trains and deferred maintenance.

Other (Possible) reasons why the MP75s got their name:

1. The LIRR needed rich old ladies to ride on the "fast train" after a ride on the rather impressive Pennsy GG1s (The R32 "Brightliners")
2. Railfans/employees/everyday commuters affectionately call them the "zip cars" as a nickname. The practice of nicknaming trains (And especially planes) is a rather common occurence (The P54 "Pings" or "Ping-Pong"s, the 4400 "Washboards")
3. A group of MP75s grouped up together in the Hillside Yard decided to come up with a catchy nickname

I'm puzzled about riding on the rather impressive Pennsy GG1s (The R32 "Brightliners"). First, the GG1s were locomotives, not passenger cars. Rich old ladies would never have ridden in them. Secondly, the R32s were NY City subway cars, not Pennsy cars.

Interesting (and somewhat conflicting) material. Were the cars ever referred to as "Zip" by the LIRR publicly? If not, did "Zip" remain a LIRR employee internal phrase or did commuters refer to them that way? If so, "Zip" sure doesn't sound like the way the public might describe the cars... Hmm

Just a thought: The USPS introduced Mr. ZIP, informally "Zippy", is a cartoon character first used January 10, 1964 prior to the World's Fair opening April 22, 1964

Any correlation between swift/quick from the LIRR marketing dept?

I posted this in 2009 They were built in 1963 as the LIRR "Worlds Fair " cars.
The LIRR employees refered to them as "Zip Cars".
'They originally had dynamic break systems, where the older MU's did not.
They were originally meant to run seperately from other equipment, but after the fair, when the MU's were being fazed out, they ran coupled to other LIRR MU's.
Since they had dynamic break, and the other MU's did not, it was an adventure braking them while coupled to other LIRR Equipment.
In the late 60's, early 70's, it was a common sight to see an MU train made up of MP-75's, MP 54's, MP 72's, and the old double deckers all slashed together in a single train's consist.
Couple that with some of the cars still being Orange and grey with Dashing Dan, and others in the Blue and white MTA Colors, the RR ran some funky looking trains.