Federal, Night Owl, Twilight Shoreliner (Trains 65, 66, 67)

I just don't understand how anyone can claim with any certainty that Viewliner sleepers "aren't being used". Has Amtrak ever said that?

Follow the thread. There are 50 Viewliners. Do the math for the cars required for service. 39 Viewliners are required for service, that is a fact. 11 Viewliners are "somewhere out there" but no in regular Amtrak required service.

OK, let me change that from "aren't being used" to "aren't being used and available for redeployment elsewhere". For all we know, Amtrak may only feel comfortable utilizing 39 Viewliners on any given day.

If reports are true that Eastern sleeping cars are often sold out, wouldn't it make more sense to deploy available sleepers (if there are any) on existing routes instead of on a new route where there's assured demand for them anyway?

During the early 1990s my family and I took advantage of the bedroom on the Night Owl several times between Boston and Washington. We boarded an hour before the 10:30 p.m. departure and fell asleep. We consistently arrived on time. It was good and comfortable service in heritage equipment. It cost around $400 round trip at that time, which was not cheap. However, it was more pleasant than 470 miles of substantially congested interstate from the Boston suburbs to northern Virginia. The drive had taken us as little at seven and a half hours and as long as thirteen depending on traffic and weather. Flying cost around $795 for three people, even though one was a child, and it took about five and a half hours door to door. Although I would have opted for the train regardless, because I am a railfan, my wife, who is not a railfan, agreed that the sleeper was the way to go.

I would think that the executive sleeper might appeal to folks getting out of late meetings and who are tired. Instead of having to stay up on a red eye or pay for a hotel and then lose part of the following day travelling, the executive sleeper may be just the right thing. Get a night's sleep and get home at the same time.

Amtrak has just renamed its northeast corridor service again. Management does this periodically. Perhaps instead of spending dollars on new logos and names, management should invest that money in finding out what customers want in terms of routes and levels of service. I do not think that changing names and logos is helpful. In fact some successful businesses would not dare risk confusing the public. Many people want value in whatever they purchase, and they are not fooled by repackaging the same product. The northeast corridor has proven its value as a transportation product. Frequency and reliability have made it convenient for many years. Certainly, sleeper service could add value for people who travel at night.

I was reading the book Travel By Pullman and Chapter 4 details short and long distance Pullman services through the eyes of a business traveler. Try and get those same services from Amtrak today. I'm not even sure what Amtrak run covers The Potomac's schedule or if the parlor service on The Potomac is comparable to BusinessClass on a Regional. B&O set out sleepers on The Metropolitan Special so travelers could actually sleep through the night instead of being woken in the middle of the night for their stop. After reading that, it's no wonder why business travelers would rather fly these days. Business Class could have the same seats as Coach, Coach could have better seats then Business, the train could be delayed for several hours, the food might not be worth the ticket. it should be noted that the LD traveler on the Captial Limited would have flown except for the bad weather forecast in Chicago. Compare the services in that part of the book to what Amtrak offers.

"OK, let me change that from "aren't being used" to "aren't being used and available for redeployment elsewhere". For all we know, Amtrak may only feel comfortable utilizing 39 Viewliners on any given day.

If reports are true that Eastern sleeping cars are often sold out, wouldn't it make more sense to deploy available sleepers (if there are any) on existing routes instead of on a new route where there's assured demand for them anyway?"

I will be the first to admit, that Amtrak's Viewliner utilization is the most puzzling to me. Eastern long distance sleeping cars are often sold out. Try booking a roomette or bedroom on the Cardinal, Crescent, or Lake Shore Limited this coming weekend (eastbound/southbound to Chicago/Atlanta and then returning back to NYC) - all sold out in sleeper class (except for the eastbound Lake Shore Limited, but since it is the "cleanup train" out of Chicago" the odds are that it will get booked up). And that is with the Lake Shore operating with three Viewliners, Crescent with two Viewliners, and Cardinal with one Viewliner.

The NEC had regular Viewliner service right up until around 2005 when the freeze-up of Viewliners occurred and it had to "give up" its Viewliner to preserve the heavy Florida market that is strong in the winter. So sleeping cars on the NEC would actually be re-deployed or restored on an existing route that once had sleeping cars. It would be the shortest route of a Viewliner but Amtrak would likely charge the equivalent of what a Viewliner might catch on the Lake Shore Limited, especially using the amounts quoted above. And at least the Viewliners would be close to Sunnyside Yard where they could pinch hit if needed. It's almost if once the Viewliner fleet got back up and running after the freeze up and the rebuilds were done on the two Viewliners involved in the Hinesville crash, they merely forgot to put sleeping cars back on the Northeast Corridor.

The Viewliners are around, it's just a matter of "where." Amtrak's got all 50 - none are in any wreck-repair status etc. And with reduced revenue capacity in the Viewliners now since the Heritage Crew Dorms are gone, (crew has to share space in the Viewliners with revenue passengers) one would think Amtrak would want to really manage this long distance sleeper car revenue - the highest revenue fare bucket on a long distance train.

Again, some could argue that instead of putting the two Viewliners on the NEC for sleeping car service, Amtrak could find one more Viewlier for a total of three to build a single level train set that would operate on the rear of the Capitol Limited across PA (to/from Pittsburgh) - ala the Three Rivers or Broadway Limited.

Out of 50 Viewiners only 39 Viewliners, or 75% of the Viewliner fleet, will be in operation this weekend on CURRENT routes where sleeping car service on the above trains are sold out. Since the Silver Palm, Three Rivers, and Federal lost its Viewliners (or were outright cancelled or truncated), I have been baffled on how Amtrak utilizes its Viewliner fleet. I've seen no statement from Amtrak as to why 25% of the fleet remains out of service. Kummant's on record saying that if they could add another sleeper to any long distance train this summer, they would do it. But this statement appears false when it plays out for both Superliners and Viewliner sleepers.

Course the Inspector General's office now has a business fleet of at least two former Heritage crew dorms, as reported on this forum or another and pictures of refurbishment. But wait, Amtrak took these Heritage cars out of service because they no longer wanted to maintain the fleet. Baffling, when Inspector General employees could easily book business travel in a Crew Car on any train if a Superliner Trans Dorm sleeper and Heritage Crew Dorm were still in operation.

And then Amtrak has also said that it is working to restore Heritage diners on the Lake Shore Limited. Lake Shore Limited passengers, myself included, are still waiting for that to happen. The Amfleet II diner-lite car is an absolute joke!

The only reason for the 11 Viewliners' absence, as far as I can tell from these posts, is that Amtrak doesn't feel they can efficiently clean and turn them without letting them sit an extra night and giving the car cleaners that added time. It doesn't make sense to me, but either it's more cost-effective to turn them slowly (you'd hope they weren't just being lazy), or Amtrak likes having complete Viewliner sets handy at Chicago (2+1), NYP (2+2), New Orleans (2), and in Florida (2).

Otherwise, maybe Amtrak needs to hire a hotel cleaning crew to clean their Viewliners quickly and reliably, so they can turn them the same day.

I wish I could agree with part of your statement, but:

1) Amtrak has the longest dwell time in its history to turn long distance train sets at Sunnyside Yard, NY. No same day turns of equipment are done any more, unless for emergencies. That's what has led to the Meteor requiring a complete extra train set in its run. The train used to arrive into NYP around 10 a.m., turn and go out same day in the evening at 7 p.m. Amtrak stuck to this schedule - or at least to no more delays than at present with long distance eastern train sets. If they had to, they stole a Viewliner, Diner, or coach from the inbound Crescent (arriving at 2:00 p.m. or Lake Shore arriving at 3:20 p.m.). So currently, the inbound trains to NYC for example, have an entire overnight period and part of the next day to be serviced before they are sent out again. And at times, these train sets still can't get out on time. Sunnyside Yard is notorious for not getting long distance trains out on schedule for whatever reason. That's been prevalent for the past 10 years at least!

* Go take a ride on VIA's Chaleur and see how quickly they can turn three sleepers, diner, dome, and three coaches. They can do all in less than two hours and they do a much better job than Amtrak single level trains. Sometimes the Chaleur pulls in to Gaspe at 1 p.m. and it is ready to go back out in clean and great shape by the 2:30 p.m. departure time. Oh and in between - they also have turn the equipment at the wye about a mile down the track. Vacuums, dustbusters and all come out for the cleaning.

2) There are no extra or spare Viewliners in New Orleans at present, nor do I ever recall an extra Viewliner at New Orleans. Occasionally an extra Superliner coach or sleeper is kept here, but not a Viewliner.

3) If Amtrak has more than 1 extra Viewliner at either Miami, Chicago, or New York, I would be shocked.

I make these statements from observation from what can be seen in the yards (I often have business to tend to out in Long Island and pass by Sunnyside Yard) or in terms of number 1 - historical evidence. For the sake of the Viewliners, I hope each are getting adequate road time on the rails, as it helps to keep them in shape, rather than dusting out the cobb webs to use the "spares" as needed one day.

Some of the missing equipment could be in "Wreck Reserve", so that Amtrak doesn't have to cancel sold out space after the next derailment.

JimBoylan wrote:Some of the missing equipment could be in "Wreck Reserve", so that Amtrak doesn't have to cancel sold out space after the next derailment.

That is what they are doing now.

Oh geeze!!! I just really am lost for words on this reason. Amtrak's handled this before by just cancelling NEC or Cardinal sleeper car service or adjusting schedules to do same day turns at Sunnyside Yard. I mean where do you draw the line with an operating policy like this? You'll never grow revenue if this is policy and Amtrak's committed to this. Granted there is a risk to deplete revenue if you have a wreck, but one must weigh this as a business decision more than as an operating decision. If operated privately, would this be wise? And I ask that as a rhetorical question.

I just don't think I will ever reconcile in my mind Amtrak's reasoning in its utilization of Viewliner sleeping cars, especially from the days of when Amtrak operated Viewliners on the Silver Palm, Twilight Shoreliner, Three River etc.

Having 20% of a fleet of vehicles as spares tends to be industry standard in the Transportation industry. In my mind, running 39 of 50 viewliners is pretty much right on target with that figure.

I'd think that selling the number of rooms they are reliably able to provide is much wiser than trying to thin the spare margin and then having to bad order a car and presenting Mr. & Ms. Traveller with the "good news" that their sleeper fare has been graciously refunded to them in return for them now taking their trip in Coach. And even that is better than having a bearing or wheel crack because of a car being run to death and inspections being fewer and farther between.

That much said, I do like in concept the idea of having a sleeper from a southern train "dropped/added" at Washington to provide a sleeper for 66 and 67 between WAS and BOS, though it would seem to require a change in the ordering of the consists to avoid double switching.

Mr. Metropolitan's posting gives rise to a historical note of which contemporary railfans are likely unaware.

No question whatever, when a railroad places in service a fleet of new locomotives or cars, they need not be concerned about equipment being shopped for much more than periodics. That is why when equipment is new it can be better utilizied than it can further "down the road" in its economic life cycle.

With that thought in mind, it should be noted that several Western roads placed orders for "spares" roundly three years after the train was originally placed in service. For example, when the California Zephyr was placed in service during 1949, there were six complete trainsets. However, during 1952, one additional Sleeper Dome Obs "Silver Lookout'" as well as several Standard Pullmans were added to the fleet to allow the original cars to be shopped for heavy repairs.

The Union Pacific also ordered six Dome Coaches that were placed in service during 1958 enabling heavy repairs for those palced in service during 1955.

The Union Pacific also ordered six Dome Coaches that were placed in service during 1958 enabling heavy repairs for those placed in service during 1955.

Any healthy rail business should be ordering equipment every year. For one thing it sustains the manufacturers and keeps the average age of equipment low. Now that demand is rising it would be good to resume this pattern.