• Federal, Night Owl, Twilight Shoreliner (Trains 65, 66, 67)

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

  by Gilbert B Norman
 
All Heritage Sleepers have been withdrawn from revenue service. None are available. The only Heritage cars available for service are 20 some Diners (12 are needed to protect 19-20, 91-92, 97-98; they've been withdrawn from 48-49), the ex GN Great Dome, and the ex-ATSF Hi-Level Lounges that are now the Pacific Parlours.

The propriety of this decision by Amtrak to retire all of the Heritage Sleepers has been discussed at great length at other topics. Somehow, I doubt if at present additional Viewliner cars are "too high" on Amtrak's shopping list.
  by Met113
 
This is probably not possible but Amtrak is sure creative with the Amfleet cars so would it be possible to make a few Amfleet cars into Amsleepers?
  by Murjax
 
Well first of all, it is impossible to have 10 Viewliners out of service if there are 50 all together because 44 are used on any given day. Now the question is, are these remaining 6 available to use, and if so, is there a reason why we cannot put 3 Viewliners on each train?
  by Met113
 
I'm pretty sure that only three viewliners are out of service and these are the three prototype Viewliners that are in storage.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
m11stephen wrote:This is probably not possible but Amtrak is sure creative with the Amfleet cars so would it be possible to make a few Amfleet cars into Amsleepers?
Actually, Mr. Stephen, that is a "been there done that". There was a fleet of "Amsnoozes" which had two Roomettes in addition to 60 Coach seats. They were assigned to the Wash-Parkersburg "B.lue Ridge".

But I will defer to Ms. Bly, as previously here she has reported that she actually rode one.
  by Met113
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote:
m11stephen wrote:This is probably not possible but Amtrak is sure creative with the Amfleet cars so would it be possible to make a few Amfleet cars into Amsleepers?
Actually, Mr. Stephen, that is a "been there done that". There was a fleet of "Amsnoozes" which had two Roomettes in addition to 60 Coach seats. They were assigned to the Wash-Parkersburg "B.lue Ridge".

But I will defer to Ms. Bly, as previously here she has reported that she actually rode one.
Hmm, never knew about this thanks for sharing. Another idea that just came to me (ive got nothing better to do lol) was a AmCrewDorm. It could be like the Heritage Crew Dorms and have an actual lounge in it for sleeping car passengers. I know I'm getting off topic here and I apologize.
  by Murjax
 
m11stephen wrote:
Murjax wrote:Well first of all, it is impossible to have 10 Viewliners out of service if there are 50 all together because 44 are used on any given day. Now the question is, are these remaining 6 available to use, and if so, is there a reason why we cannot put 3 Viewliners on each train?
I'm pretty sure that only three viewliners are out of service and these are the three prototype Viewliners that are in storage.
Ok, that means 3 are available. So are there any other issues that would prevent a Viewliner sleeper from being added to these trains?
  by TomNelligan
 
Murjax wrote: So are there any other issues that would prevent a Viewliner sleeper from being added to these trains?
One issue that has been discussed here in the past (and is alluded to above by Mr. JP) was the practice of cycling Viewliners to Miami (Hialeah) for servicing. So what exactly does this entail that couldn't be done at Boston/Southampton Street or Washington/Ivy City? I assume that Amfleet equipment assigned to the Northeast Corridor doesn't travel to Florida for monthly inspections and such, and I know that the Acela trainsets certainly don't, but I'm not knowledgeable on the specifics of current maintenance/service/inspection requirements and why sleepers would need special treatment. Can anyone explain?
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
TomNelligan wrote:One issue that has been discussed here in the past (and is alluded to above by Mr. JP) was the practice of cycling Viewliners to Miami (Hialeah) for servicing. So what exactly does this entail that couldn't be done at Boston/Southampton Street or Washington/Ivy City?
Actually, Mr. Nelligan, that is a "no brainer"; it is much more economic and efficient to have the replacement parts needed for the periodics, as well as the expertise with trained Shop forces, at one location to accomplish such rather than spread about the System. Any of the Viewliners and A-II's can be moved to Hialeah for their periodics in revenue service merely by rotating the cars into "Silver" consists.
  by mannynews
 
TomNelligan wrote:
Murjax wrote: So are there any other issues that would prevent a Viewliner sleeper from being added to these trains?
One issue that has been discussed here in the past (and is alluded to above by Mr. JP) was the practice of cycling Viewliners to Miami (Hialeah) for servicing. So what exactly does this entail that couldn't be done at Boston/Southampton Street or Washington/Ivy City? I assume that Amfleet equipment assigned to the Northeast Corridor doesn't travel to Florida for monthly inspections and such, and I know that the Acela trainsets certainly don't, but I'm not knowledgeable on the specifics of current maintenance/service/inspection requirements and why sleepers would need special treatment. Can anyone explain?
I believe that the cars were sent to Florida on a regular basis to prevent freezing of water & other lines during the winter months.
  by mtuandrew
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viewliner
http://on-track-on-line.com/amtk-roster ... #Viewliner

53 Viewliners were built, including two sleeper prototypes and one diner prototype (these three are OOS.) Otherwise, the 50 production models are in active use. According to reports on this forum, there's 6 that aren't used on regular trains. If I were Amtrak's manager, I'd make sure that at least two cars were in rotating reserve at New York in case of a bad-ordered car on the LSL, Cardinal, or Silver Service. Preferably, I'd have at least one at Chicago as well. So, 66/67/the Federal would have to make do with one Viewliner each way. Plus, it would end up being slower than the standard Regional (110 max instead of 125), so they might have to change the schedule a bit. Is it worth it? Maybe.

One thing that hasn't been addressed on this thread: there'd be two deadhead moves every time you wanted to shop one of the Federal's Viewliners. They'd go from BOS or WAS to Sunnyside with the bad-ordered car, and then back with the new car. Theoretically it could be plugged onto the back of any daytime Regional, but Amtrak doesn't seem to want to be fast enough to switch in/out a car during the NYP stop, and you'd run into the speed restriction again.
  by Met113
 
Murjax wrote:
m11stephen wrote:
Murjax wrote:Well first of all, it is impossible to have 10 Viewliners out of service if there are 50 all together because 44 are used on any given day. Now the question is, are these remaining 6 available to use, and if so, is there a reason why we cannot put 3 Viewliners on each train?
I'm pretty sure that only three viewliners are out of service and these are the three prototype Viewliners that are in storage.
Ok, that means 3 are available. So are there any other issues that would prevent a Viewliner sleeper from being added to these trains?
The diner was a complete design disaster and this was discussed in another thread. I think the two sleepers are being used as a "sandbox" (ie prototype) for Amtrak's next car.
  by jp1822
 
Viewliners currently required for regular service:

Crescent - 4 train sets x 2 Viewliners = 8 Viewliners
Lake Shore Limited - 3 train sets x 3 Viewliners = 9 Viewliners
Cardinal - 2 train sets x 1 Viewliner = 2 Viewliners
Silver Star - 4 train sets x 3 Viewliners = 12 Viewliners *
Silver Meteor - 4 train sets x 2 Viewliners = 8 Viewliners *

TOTAL VIEWLINERS REQUIRED FOR SERVICE = 39 Viewliners

* Silver Star operates southbound with three Viewliners, northbound with two Viewliners
* Silver Meteor operates southbound with two Viewliners, northbound with three Viewliners
So for the purposes of the calculation, I assigned the three Viewliners to the Silver Star

Keep in mind, the Silver Meteor and Silver Star were supposed to operate with three Viewliners north and southbound, but this has not happened from my observations at NYP. Also, no train sets have a same day turn at Sunnyside, likey they used to, and still is the practice at Chicago. Amtrak could free up an entire Silver Meteor train set if they pushed the southbound departure time of the Meteor back to its old time of 7:00 p.m., rather than 3:15 p.m. At present the 3:15 p.m. is the last train of the day out of NYC to make it to Richmond, VA. It would seem a 7:00 p.m. departure would allow a more time in NYC before heading to Richmond (and yes, Amtrak could get a slot at 7:00 p.m. for the Meteor if it wanted to) - otherwise, passengers can take an earlier train to Richmond that is close to the 3:15 p.m. Meteor departure. Also by allowing the Meteor to depart later southbound out of Penn Station (and arriving northbound within the 10 a.m. hour), you'd get more passengers from connecting trains (especially if the conecting trains were operating late).

So out of 50 Viewliners, only 39 are in regular required daily operation. Three Viewliners are likely in for routine inspections. So that leavs 42 Viewliners that are booked for service. To say that Amtrak does not have 2 Viewliners to spare for NEC sleeper car operation, doesn't seem to work into this calculation too well. Now we get to the 44 number of Viewliners in service (as two would be required to operate on the NEC if one Viewliner is used per train set), leading 6 Viewliners for either spares or shuffling around the system. For a pool of Viewliners that are centered on the East Coast, and largely a mid-point of Sunnyside Yard NY, this seems reasonable to have at least 6 Viewliners as spares. Currenty, Amtrak seems to be operating only 75% of its Viewliner fleet. That seems very low.

If Amtrak wants to get more bang for its buck with the Viewliners - the could operate them as day rooms between Boston-NYP or Washington DC-NYP during the day. Placing a cafe car adjacent for meal service durding the day would help augment and build pricing. Just as long as the Viewliners are serviced and placed back into position by 9 or 10 p.m. at their end points of Washington DC or Boston, this will work.

Again, I think 60 Massachussetts Ave. is complacent with the status quo regarding the eastern long distance trains. The Night Owl/Twilight Shoreliner often ran with 2 Viewliners on each train set at one time. But during the Warrington years, the Viewliners started to get spread thin around the system to at least offer overnight sleeper car service on longer distance routes.

The NEC sleeper car service would sort of be an extension of Acela Express First Class service. But it would provide a "hotel on wheels" so to speak for those on the northern and southern most end of the corridor to "sleep through" the mid-section of the corridor.
  by mtuandrew
 
Oops. Regarding my earlier post: I went back and read Amtrak's current timetable.

-Regionals 66/67 have a remarkably slow schedule, taking just under 10 hours to go between BOS and WAS, while a daytime Regional takes just over 8 hours. No worries about the 110 mph speed restriction, then.

-Switching out cars from either Washington or Boston might be easier than I thought. At New York Penn, there's an hour (more or less) scheduled layover either way - a Viewliner could be placed on the end of the train to deadhead north or south, exchanged with the in-service sleeper in the morning, and the car needing repair could be dropped off at NYP the next day.

-In regards to daylight service, there might be a market for it. But, if a car was to traverse the entire way from Boston to Newport News, it wouldn't make it back in time for the next evening's train. Each service would need two cars for a total of four sleepers in captive NEC service, though they could set up two of them as exclusively daytime Viewliners (no linen service, etc.) Still not a deal-breaker if it's assumed there's eight spares as it is... this would just cut it down to four spares instead of six.
  by amtrakhogger
 
One reason they pulled the sleepers from 66/67 was a shortage of Superliners at the time due to a rash of derailments.
So what Amtrak did was pull the exsisting Superliners off 50/51 for use elsewhere and substituted Viewliners, Amfleet, and
Horizon cars.
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