Buffalo Central Station under Amtrak (Past, Present, Future)

Wouldn't be the Belt line. CSX would not want it interfering with their ops, and the right of way is too narrow to add a 3rd track. Amtrak is currently the sole operator of the Niagara River line, so it would only make sense for them to continue high speed service along the river. However, I don't see either line seeing high speed service anytime soon, let alone in my lifetime.

I tend to agree with you.

The out of the way location is a significant challenge when considering other uses for this facility - its location was never great - other than for rail operations. And when compared to other rail stations in large cities, with a few exceptions, this station is far removed from the central business district and further, it is not conveniently located to either Kensington Freeway or Thruway - so not a lot of driveby traffic for retail etc . Real estate and development is all about location - and this location is not good with respect to access and existing amenities, business, drive by traffic, foot traffic and, gulp, light rail service.

So, I think it needs to be unique and have a built in draw - my suggestions are:

Casino complex (nod to Mr. Weaver) -

Condominiums and apartments ( perhaps 150 to 200 at sq. ft. varying from 1,000sq. ft to 3,000 sq. ft.each) in the tower and other large structures, parking in larger structures at grade level and retail and food amenities in the concourse

Creative "Arts Building" - artists living space and work space + local retail

Corporate campus - 500,000 sq. ft. is suitable amount of space for a single corporate entity or a incubator facility ( cheap space for biotech startups, etc.), back of house space for a large New York City bank, back up data center, satellite administrative office for the University of New York etc.

All of these uses may take issue with the active tracks being close to the building (especially the rail connection from the north) - noise, vibration, dust and dirt from trains are problematic - so some thought might be given to mitigating these issues by demolishing the orphaned concourse over tracks and the platforms, realigning the rail connection from the north to increasing distance between active rail line and the building (also allows improved site design/ access to the rear of the building).

All of the above items could be combined with the station function - but it makes better sense to put the station closer to city center and not tie improved rail service to a marginal development project isolated from the region's commercial/business/educational centers.

noise, vibration, dust and dirt from trains are problematic

They did solve that problem 80 years ago when the building was built. The guastavino tiles that lines the concourse and the passenger concourse curbed acoustical problems caused by the vastness of the space and the movement of trains and people. The terrazzo floor has built in vibration mats made up of layers of asbestos, lead and two inches of cork to absorb the shock and sound of the trains below. Alot of time and thought was put into this building, the architects had train station design down to an exact science.


http://www.forgottenbuffalo.com/histori ... minal.html

http://www.buffalonews.com/258/story/740155.html

Claiming state transportation officials have struck a "nasty blow" to Buffalo's distressed East Side, the Common Council wants decision-makers to reconsider the Central Terminal as a hub for a proposed high-speed rail line.
The Council today unanimously reaffirmed its support of a plan to use the long-vacant train station as a regional hub if New York receives stimulus funds to build high-speed rail.
Last week, Rep. Louise M. Slaughter, who heads the Upstate New York Caucus, said the Central Terminal is ill-suited to become a rail hub again. The group has made bringing high-speed rail to Western and Central New York a top priority.
Council President David A. Franczyk said the station was ruled out based on flawed information supplied by the state Department of Transportation. Franczyk said the officials referred to problems that would occur as a result of freight tracks located at the northwest corner of the terminal. There are no tracks in that spot, Franczyk insisted.
"This seems fishy to me," he said. "Where's the study?

As I said a few days ago... There is something else going on here.

Based on observations on railfanning trips to the Buffalo area, it seems to me that there should be sufficient land available in the Depew-Cheektowaga area to replace the current Amtrak station with a larger intermodal facility. It would be convenient to both the CSX main line and to I-90 for intercity buses and the NFTA could run connecting local bus service to downtown, the airport, the university and suburban transit centers. It would also be convenient to the area's belt highways for park and ride passengers (who are already used to traveling to the eastern suburbs to access intercity air travel) with plenty of room for parking in a safe area. The area around the BCT is not very convenient for many potential customers, and while some think security should not be an issue, I can guarantee you that a significant percentage of people would be fearful of leaving their car in that area. A suburban location makes a lot of sense - Syracuse's Regional Transportation Center was built outside of the downtown area and has been very successful.

Everyone is all worried about leaving there car there. I'm sick of hearing it. Don't you think maybe if millions of dollars were put into building this facility, they might put on a security guard or two? Cars wouldn't even be left in the open, they be in the parking garage below the plaza, where there is plenty of parking.
Anyone ever been to a place called Washington, D.C. ?? Worst crime rate in the country, and yet you will find hundreds of cars parked in Union Stations parking ramp. I've never been worried about leaving my car there.
Can anyone here give an honest account of there lives or property truly being in danger when they visited the Central Terminal?? I've been volunteering there almost a decade now, and I've never been mugged or robbed or shot at or whatever else people think is going on in the evil trenches of Buffalo's east side. I've personally spoken with dozens of police officers and ems who have told me how much they love the building, and how uneventful the neighborhood is. They tell us time and time again that 99% of the crime going on in the area is domestic. Do you think that nobody has ever been shot in Cheektowaga or Depew? No one has ever had there car broken into out in the 'burbs' ? Wake up folks.
We'd be missing the chance of a lifetime to turn the BCT back into something usable, and if we pass on this opportunity because a few people are afraid of an area they've only herd rumors about, we may never get a chance like this again.

</end rant>

Well said, SimTrains.

I think the reason the politicians changed their mind is because their developer buddies won't be able to create the kind of in-kind development that would normally surround such a venture.

SimTrains wrote:We'd be missing the chance of a lifetime to turn the BCT back into something usable, and if we pass on this opportunity because a few people are afraid of an area they've only herd rumors about, we may never get a chance like this again.

Ah, the truth comes out. It's more important to save the old train station than it would be to provide a convenient location for travelers.

those who have not seen this may be interested:

http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/b ... 40835.html

Vote requests new look at making Central Terminal high-speed rail hub
By Brian Meyer
NEWS STAFF REPORTER
July 22, 2009, 7:06 AM
Claiming state transportation officials have struck a “nasty blow” to Buffalo’s distressed East Side, the Common Council wants decision- makers to reconsider the Central Terminal as a hub for a proposed high-speed rail line. The Council voted unanimously Tuesday to reaffirm its support for using the long-vacant train station as a regional hub if the state receives stimulus funds to build high-speed rail. Last week, Rep. Louise M. Slaughter, the Fairport Democrat who heads the Upstate New York Caucus, said the Central Terminal is ill-suited to become a rail hub again. The group has made bringing high-speed rail to Western and Central New York a top priority.

probably not terribly likely but i suppose the chances are somewhat better than before...

And its back on the list...

http://www.buffalonews.com/258/story/742144.html

By Brian Meyer - News Staff Reporter
July 23, 2009, 10:56 AM
Buffalo's Central Terminal cannot be ruled out as a train hub if New York snares stimulus funds to build high-speed rail, a state transportation official said today in what terminal restoration advocates hailed as a welcome about-face. One week earlier, Rep. Louise M. Slaughter said state transportation officials had concluded that the long-vacant East Side landmark would be ill-suited for high-speed rail. On Tuesday, the Common Council passed a resolution reaffirming the city's support to make the Central Terminal a regional rail stop. Lawmakers criticized project planners for striking a "nasty blow" to a distressed neighborhood. They accused state officials of basing their finding on faulty information. Skip Carrier, the state DOT's communications director, made it clear today that the Central Terminal has not been ruled out as a possible site.

I'm sure Amtrak would prefer that over two dumpy stations

This has been discussed on the New York State topic to no end and I will also say it here, this is not a good facility nor a
good location for a passenger station. It would cost a fortune to restore this building to a passenger station. That is not to
say that the building can't be used for something. I suggested a casino on the other topic but it could also be used for a
college facility including classrooms and dorms or it might be possible to convert it to some kind of housing.
Amtrak already has two stations that are adequate if not fancy. One in Depew has a good safe location with a lot of
parking on the site and the other is very close to downtown and is served by everything except 48 and 49.
There are many Amtrak locations that fare much worse than Buffalo does when it comes to passenger facilities.
The money that they would put into this would be much better spent on track, signals, equipment or something else that
would benefit all of the people using this route Central Terminal would not even benefit the people in Buffalo.
Noel Weaver

This station is designed for 100+ trains/day. At the current level (20?) a nice building like that in St. Louis would suffice. The only way this building would work is a situation similar to Kansas City, where most of the station is taken for other use while the passengers may use the waiting room and platforms.

I cannot speak to the geographic suitability of the station, but I hear it's away from downtown and has no light rail service.

Why was this station built in the location that it is in? Was a downtown location not available at the time?