Buffalo Central Station under Amtrak (Past, Present, Future)

In the words of my grandfather (who grew up in Buffalo) on the subject on the location of BCT: "That neighborhood has been screwed up since the place opened!"

I think Amtrak wanted to, they could put the entire station including ticketing and baggage into the sky bridge that is above the platforms in the BCT.

However, for high speed service? I think the location of the former LVRR passenger terminal was a decent spot. Its about 10 minutes or less from almost everything that you might go to.

AgentSkelly wrote:
I think Amtrak wanted to, they could put the entire station including ticketing and baggage into the sky bridge that is above the platforms in the BCT.

The passenger concourse is entirely severed, has been open to the weather for decades and can't be accessed.

goodnightjohnwayne wrote:

AgentSkelly wrote:
I think Amtrak wanted to, they could put the entire station including ticketing and baggage into the sky bridge that is above the platforms in the BCT.

The passenger concourse is entirely severed, has been open to the weather for decades and can't be accessed.

I'm aware of that as I have been inside it. But it would be easier to fix all those issues.

I myself was on the platforms several years ago. Cleaning up the debris isn't the biggest problem. It's the repair. I thought the floor in the main area was in pretty darn good shape. Just as good as inside the terminal itself. But many of the tiled walls going up to the main area have fallen off and are cluttering the staircases. Probably more problems have occured since then.

If you could resolve the access issue going over the Belt Line tracks and just clean up/repair [save]one platform, I think there would be many of us who would love to watch trains from the platform. As the terminal access is now, you really can't see any trainage unless you are standing in the taxi cab area on the upper deck where the Belt Line branches. And of course we assume that it will take money. It's automatic.

SST wrote:I myself was on the platforms several years ago. Cleaning up the debris isn't the biggest problem. It's the repair. I thought the floor in the main area was in pretty darn good shape. Just as good as inside the terminal itself. But many of the tiled walls going up to the main area have fallen off and are cluttering the staircases. Probably more problems have occured since then.

If you could resolve the access issue going over the Belt Line tracks and just clean up/repair [save]one platform, I think there would be many of us who would love to watch trains from the platform. As the terminal access is now, you really can't see any trainage unless you are standing in the taxi cab area on the upper deck where the Belt Line branches. And of course we assume that it will take money. It's automatic.

It isn't what location is best for watching trains but what location best serves the paying passengers. Amtrak has two
locations that do their jobs quite well. Depew for the eastern suburbs with plenty of good parking and Exchange Street
which is pretty close to downtown Buffalo and probably better for passengers headed downtown and maybe the few
business travelers who still prefer the train in New York State and I think there are some who still do.
Noel Weaver

Your right in regards to actual passenger usage. BCT won't beat the two current locations. I live in Williamsville and I'm not going to park my car and leave it in the BCT neighborhood. I'm surprised at how many cars are at Exchange street.

Even if traffic were to return to BCT, it won't benefit the neighborhood that much anyways. The number of people that may get hired from the neighborhood and the amount of ticket taxes collected won't even come close to benefiting the neighborhood. It won't make it better.

My post above was geared towards BCT events and not actual passenger traffic. I slightly went astray.

However, which of the two current stations would work best for high speed service? Depew or Exchange?

Neither of these stations would work at all. Your all missing the point completely here... The proposition is for a multi-model station what would support not only the new high speed trains, but also regional Amtrak trains, buses, taxi cabs, car rentals and shuttles which would take you other places like Niagara Falls, the Buffalo Airport, Downtown Buffalo, the Walden galleria, and all kinds of other places. Without a station that can support a transit network like that, the high speed rail would be worthless. This is why BCT would work perfectly. Where in the city would you build such a terminal? Where would one fit?
One of the reasons why the NYC built the BCT far out from the city, Lake Erie is a dead end. You can't run trains directly into the city. If you don't believe me, do a little research and learn about the first station built at Exchange St. Trains had to be backed out form the platforms, which took up too much time and resulted in chaos and delays.
The BCT at one time was able to handle all of this, and with a little renovation, it can happen again.

SimTrains wrote:Neither of these stations would work at all. Your all missing the point completely here... The proposition is for a multi-model station what would support not only the new high speed trains, but also regional Amtrak trains, buses, taxi cabs, car rentals and shuttles which would take you other places like Niagara Falls, the Buffalo Airport, Downtown Buffalo, the Walden galleria, and all kinds of other places. Without a station that can support a transit network like that, the high speed rail would be worthless. This is why BCT would work perfectly. Where in the city would you build such a terminal? Where would one fit?
One of the reasons why the NYC built the BCT far out from the city, Lake Erie is a dead end. You can't run trains directly into the city. If you don't believe me, do a little research and learn about the first station built at Exchange St. Trains had to be backed out form the platforms, which took up too much time and resulted in chaos and delays.

I can only imagine that Niagara Falls bound passengers would be best served by existing Amtrak station in Niagara falls, downtown Buffalo passengers are best served by the Exchange Street stop and western suburbs are best served by the current station at Depew. The current stations service the region very adequately, and making passengers go to an inconveniently placed station, in a place where few people care to venture in broad daylight, let alone at night, seems like a surefire recipe for decreased patronage.

In comparison to the existing three stations, BCT is the least desirable location from the standpoint of non-railfan passengers. If "high speed rail" is made inaccessible to potential passengers, what is the point?

SimTrains wrote:The BCT at one time was able to handle all of this, and with a little renovation, it can happen again.

That sad truth is that it would require more than a "little restoration" to make even a portion of BCT a station again, with a potential cost in the hundreds of millions for any sort of restoration and perhaps tens of millions for even the severed, inaccessible, derelict passenger concourse.

Make the place something, I can't imagine just exactly what, put a train watching platform or area there and let it go at
that. I am glad to see the building still there and maybe something good will come someday but as a railroad station, its
days are over.
Noel Weaver

This building is one of the last of its kind in the world. The detail in its architecture goes far beyond what anyone could possibly imagine. And I do believe it helps to actually live in Buffalo to better see the possibility of a multi-model station. I've volunteered there for nearing 5 years, since this buildings turn around its gotten more press, more hype, and for the second year in a row, Artvoice readers voted the Central Terminal as the building they would most like to see saved. It comes down to common sense...what do you do with an old train station, turn it into a shopping center? a convention center? a restaurant? a casino? a train station is the most obvious choice. It was the center point for an entire community for decades and even the Galleria Mall of its day. ALL the infrastructure you would ever need is already in place. If you don't believe all this it was posted on the Central Terminal's website why the Central Terminal? why not other stations? it points out the political support and even the information you'd need as a developer. Enjoy!

http://buffalocentralterminal.org/about ... peed-rail/

As probably as unpopular as this might sound, I think a study should be done to see where the best location for a high speed train station should be located....

As an architecture student in the late 80's I spent some time poking around CT - taking photos etc - and it is a marvelous structure - I love it and think it should have a new lease on life.

As a practicing architect, I think the return on investment for renovating this structure as a rail station/hotel complex is limited - it is in a bad neighborhood, removed from the " action" of downtown.

My opinion is the area bounded by Exchange, Hamburg and Swan Streets makes a pretty good spot for a new station - either as a terminal or through station.

I don't know too much about rail ops at this location but I imaging a new station somewhere around Exchange and Hamburg streets with potential for connecting light rail shuttle to downtown, adjacent to the existing line up to NF. If a terminal, terminating trains could be emptied, run across the river and serviced in a new facility between the river and Tifft street.

Regardless, the cost of reorganizing track layout and constructing a new terminal building utilizing latest construction methods and service amenities ( including green features) is likely far below the cost of even a limited renovation of CT - even with the purchase of property near exchange. Be interesting to run the numbers - especially the life cylce cost of new green construction vs. the cost of renovation - I suspect remediation of existing hazards and structural defects will far outpace the cost of new construction - I suspect not more than 20,000 sq.ft. is required for a new, state of the art rail station - save the money and put it into providing light rail and making exchange street a boulevard/commercial corridor to downtown area.

Maybe a hotel and casino would breathe some new life into this structure. There is probably enough space and maybe some
area where they could expand if necessary.
I think some ideas on here for uses OTHER than a railroad station would be constructive.
I do not think any studies would accomplish anything other than spending a lot of money that they do not have to spend.
Noel Weaver

Anybodys guess as to which set of tracks the high speed train will take after leaving Buffalo? Is it going to travel the Belt Line to Niagara Falls or is it going to run along the Niagara River as AMTRAK currently does?

If it takes the Belt Line, BCT might work. If its the Niagara Branch....the Exchange St area would obviously work.