Blue Line Extension ROW

Sure. Hope these work:

Seattle elevated line:

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr35 ... 1254460764

My proposal for Blue Line through the Point of Pines area:

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr35 ... 1254509563

^ Thanks for the links!

I noticed that the images work now, I think they did not work because Google was down or something, but Google works now.

I'm not too familiar with the area, but if thaat property wasn't owned by the MBTA to begin with, taking away those townhouses would spark the central artery debate all over again. (when they took people's homes to build the central artery)

Ummm...not quite, as I know almost for a fact that there is at least one property that was built on the T's property as I've heard the same story from different people in Point of Pines, and visually, you can see how the parking area is obviously on the old ROW. Somewhere, as I mentioned previously, there is rail not too far away, according to long time residents. The Southwest Corridor debaucle was taking homes that were constructed legitimately (some as far back as in the Civil War era) and owned by the same family all the way through.

Taking three structures (one apartment building, one row of townhouses and one garage) isn't much, considering that it's for a major new transporation facility. They're all relatively new structures which don't have any historical or neighborhood context. I would guess that the inhabitants of the houses in the area wouldn't be sad to see them go. Also, removing the apartment building and townhouses would allow room for a buffer space between the new rail line and the older residential neighborhood, and allow room for a surface level station at a great location for accessibility.

Charliemta wrote:Taking three structures (one apartment building, one row of townhouses and one garage) isn't much, considering that it's for a major new transporation facility. They're all relatively new structures which don't have any historical or neighborhood context. I would guess that the inhabitants of the houses in the area wouldn't be sad to see them go. Also, removing the apartment building and townhouses would allow room for a buffer space between the new rail line and the older residential neighborhood, and allow room for a surface level station at a great location for accessibility.

While that part of rebuilding the line might not be too expensive (heck, if you can prove that the buildings were built illegally, the T might not even have to pay for their removal) isn't there a bridge or something that would also need to be rebuilt? Given the lack of funding the T currently has, couldn't that be a problem?

The bulk of the funding would have to be Federal. Instead of proposing silly and wateful proposals like Silver Line Phase III, the MBTA should try to get Federal funding for projects like this, that are relatively cheap, would require no tunnels, and would use existing right-of-way on a good part of the route. The most expensive part of the project would be a new bridge to Lynn across the Saugus River inlet.

The Point of Pines route would avoid crossing wetlands and marshes for the most part. If the line is moved over to the commuter rail line instead of Point of Pines, a lot of expensive viaducts would be needed to cross the marshlands, as new embankment in marshland would be politically unacceptable. Also, mitigation (creation of new marshland elsewhere) would be required to offset the impact to the marshes by the new viaducts, costing even more money. It's better and more economical to demolish an apartment building and some townhouses than to cross vast areas of marshland. Besides, Point of Pines serves populated areas better.

So going out to visit my aunt this thanksgiving I rode the newburyport line. I noticed some oddity's. First the pipe/pier thing everyone assumed was built on the piers of the old bridge is not. The pilings on either side of the river are completely different, and don't look like they could, or ever have been able to support any sort of train. I still think this may have been the location of a crossing but I don't think the current structure is built on the remains of the old bridge.

Also, there appears to be the remains of a different crossing. If one looks on the boston side of the current commuter rail bridge, there is a curve coming off the line as soon as it hits land. On the point of pines peninsula there is some kind of automotive lot who's property lines perfectly line up with this curve, and then turn to match up with the old narrow gauge ROW. Is it possible there were two bridges in this area? (All this is clearly visible on google earth.)

I also noticed going through Lynn, the ROW is wide enough for four tracks on the viaduct going through the center of town (and for a small section over Blossom Street carrys all four tracks), however the station was built as an island directly on the two center tracks. If the blue line was extended out, would the existing station be demolished?

There also doesn't appear to be any room for a yard until just before Chatham Street, and that would be extremely small. It seems like a more feasible to have the blue line extension go to swampscott, and then take the old marblehead branch for a yard. Does anyone know what the actual plans are (were) for terminating the end of the blue line? Is the current station in the same position as the old one?

Lots of questions, but the trip out inspired me

FP10 wrote: Also, there appears to be the remains of a different crossing. If one looks on the boston side of the current commuter rail bridge, there is a curve coming off the line as soon as it hits land. On the point of pines peninsula there is some kind of automotive lot who's property lines perfectly line up with this curve, and then turn to match up with the old narrow gauge ROW. Is it possible there were two bridges in this area? (All this is clearly visible on google earth.)

There was a branch that went to Point of Pines, that is what you see.

FP10 wrote:I also noticed going through Lynn, the ROW is wide enough for four tracks on the viaduct going through the center of town (and for a small section over Blossom Street carrys all four tracks), however the station was built as an island directly on the two center tracks. If the blue line was extended out, would the existing station be demolished?

The railroad was rebuilt at some point for a 4 track main line better never used. I believe the Blue Line station was/is intended to go in the gap between the parking garage and the CR station.

I'm still puzzled as to why the MBTA's response to the news that town officials in Revere allowed someone to build something on T-owned right-of-way was "well we'll have to find a new route and re-do all the environmental and preliminary engineering work" rather than "Revere and/or the trespasser will have to pay to remove the illegal building ASAP" Can anyone clue me into why this is the case? Did someone at the T actually sell off that land or something and just not tell people?

madcrow wrote:I'm still puzzled as to why the MBTA's response to the news that town officials in Revere allowed someone to build something on T-owned right-of-way was "well we'll have to find a new route and re-do all the environmental and preliminary engineering work" rather than "Revere and/or the trespasser will have to pay to remove the illegal building ASAP" Can anyone clue me into why this is the case? Did someone at the T actually sell off that land or something and just not tell people?

The T doesn't want to bother with the extension and has an excuse to abandon further work on it?

Arborway wrote:

madcrow wrote:I'm still puzzled as to why the MBTA's response to the news that town officials in Revere allowed someone to build something on T-owned right-of-way was "well we'll have to find a new route and re-do all the environmental and preliminary engineering work" rather than "Revere and/or the trespasser will have to pay to remove the illegal building ASAP" Can anyone clue me into why this is the case? Did someone at the T actually sell off that land or something and just not tell people?

The T doesn't want to bother with the extension and has an excuse to abandon further work on it?

Or that they know that a certain legal battle with potential appeals could drag on into infinity since the apartment building owners cannot be held liable for the mistakes of the town of Revere. Such a court battle might nullify the extension as planned after many years in which the T would then have to devise an alternate plan anyway.

I have to say I don't even think the apartment building would have to be demolished. On satellite view it looks like only the parking lot would have to be taken. It would be a tight ROW but it appears it could be done. I have to agree that this seems to be a case of the T just not wanting to do it, so they are grabbing any excuse they can not to.

FP10 wrote:I have to say I don't even think the apartment building would have to be demolished. On satellite view it looks like only the parking lot would have to be taken. It would be a tight ROW but it appears it could be done. I have to agree that this seems to be a case of the T just not wanting to do it, so they are grabbing any excuse they can not to.

One could make a somewhat convincing argument, however, that the T is in no position to be spending money on significant physical expansion of the system. Even worthy projects may have to wait. As for other excuses, I'm not much of an authority on that. But I think the biggest excuse right now (money) is in fact legitimate.

Ahhh... home sweet home...

Anyways, I lived in Point of Pines until September of this year and I can see the Apartment building in question from my house (and Russia as well).
I know its a narrow gauge, but I'm am 95% sure that there's no way you could squeeze the Blue Line between the Apartment and the houses on Lynnway. On the 441 \ 442, If you get off at the John Avenue stop at Point of Pines (going outbound) - which is at the northern part of this particular building, there's a small pedestrian walkway to Lynnway and it crosses the ROW. When you cross the ROW, to your left you see the ROW continue a short distance to the 1A overpass that COMPLETELY was built over the ROW, destroyed it in every way and you would never know today it crossed what is now 1A - I didn't know until I read this thread. To your right you see the VERY small space left of the ROW... I don't think I need to get a tape measure to tell prove they built over the ROW, and I'm sure they did with the other apartment also. It's so skinny, I don't know if even one track would fit in there.

Suppose the T claimed the land back and knocked down the buildings... I would highly suspect my old neighbors would begin waving the NIMBY flag when they learn their backyards (private homes I'm talking about not the apt) will probably be destroyed for a few years. And the townhouses mentioned are VERY new (I don't even think 4 years old) and do not sit on the ROW. They are ironically right next to the apt in question.

I do like to see that there's some hope out there for the Blue Line to Lynn - I'm still on the North Shore, and the service up here has to be the worst in the system (and I lived in Dorchester for many years, and would kill for that quality of service).