Arrow III Thread

[amtrakhogger]

Hang out at Jersey Ave weekdays in the morning, all the trains that come out of the layover yard are Arrow 3's.

[Fan Railer]

A handful of daily Trenton trains run with 10-12 car Arrow III sets during rush hours; 3867 should be one of them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTTdXGujnro" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Jeff Smith]

The Arrow III's shall soon reach retirement; how much long will they run?: NJ.com

Here’s how much longer NJ Transit’s oldest rail cars will remain in use

NJ Transit’s first replacements for the venerable 44-year-old Arrow III electric rail cars are expected to be delivered this year, but they have to pass tests before passengers get to ride them.

The prototypes are the first of 113 multi-level III rail cars ordered in December 2018 after NJ Transit’s board approved a $699.07 million with Bombardier Transit Corp. to replace the existing Arrow III fleet of electric-powered trains.
...
In 1984, the self-propelled Arrow cars helped NJ replace some old electric powered trains that dated to the 1930s after the state took over commuter service from Conrail. Those cars were originally built in 1977 and 230 of them were rebuilt by NJ Transit starting in 1989 with new propulsion and braking technology.

The Arrows are now as dated as the trains they replaced and disliked by riders for their breakdowns and uncomfortable seating arrangement. For NJ Transit, it’s been difficult and expensive to get parts for them.

The Arrows aren’t totally unloved. An online Change.org petition is asking at least one model train manufacturer to step up and produce models of the Arrows which has 276 signatures so far.

[Matt Johnson]

So long Princeton Dinky?

[Jeff Smith]

I was wondering that, too.

[lensovet]

No need to wonder, as NJT as actively looking at the future for the corridor.

[Silverliner II]

No need to wonder, as NJT as actively looking at the future for the corridor.

Yeah, and not all the options are rail.....

Thanks to the Multilevel Power Car configuration requiring a minimum of 3 cars (power car with cab cars on either end), a 3-car Dinky with that much capacity is overkill...

[lensovet]

There's only two options recommended for further study: status quo and a transit corridor that includes both light rail and bus.

Frankly that seems reasonable. A heavy rail line that's less than 2 miles long is overkill for the amount of ridership on it, and requires much higher operational costs than LRV and bus options.

[R36 Combine Coach]

NJT should wait until the ConnDOT single level coach order and see if a DMU variant would be offered (basically the M-7 DMU concept from circa 2004). A single unit DMU would mean reduced costs in no longer having to maintain the 2.65 mile catenary while allowing a standardized EMU fleet. The DMUs could also be useful for NYSW and other service in the future.

[Silverliner II]

There's only two options recommended for further study: status quo and a transit corridor that includes both light rail and bus.

Frankly that seems reasonable. A heavy rail line that's less than 2 miles long is overkill for the amount of ridership on it, and requires much higher operational costs than LRV and bus options.

Status quo sure won't work with the new equipment, that's for sure. They sure won't use an ALP46 and a cab car as replacements. And I hate to say it, but a light rail line of similar distance is not worth the effort, either. Even the Ashmont-Mattapan line in Boston is longer.

[lensovet]

There's only two options recommended for further study: status quo and a transit corridor that includes both light rail and bus.

Frankly that seems reasonable. A heavy rail line that's less than 2 miles long is overkill for the amount of ridership on it, and requires much higher operational costs than LRV and bus options.

Status quo sure won't work with the new equipment, that's for sure. They sure won't use an ALP46 and a cab car as replacements. And I hate to say it, but a light rail line of similar distance is not worth the effort, either. Even the Ashmont-Mattapan line in Boston is longer.

Again you could just go and read the report to find the answers, but status quo literally means status quo, with existing equipment and service levels, not with DMUs, ALPs, or any other nonsense.

[lensovet]

NJT should wait until the ConnDOT single level coach order and see if a DMU variant would be offered (basically the M-7 DMU concept from circa 2004). A single unit DMU would mean reduced costs in no longer having to maintain the 2.65 mile catenary while allowing a standardized EMU fleet. The DMUs could also be useful for NYSW and other service in the future.

where is this hypothetical, not-yet-existent DMU getting fueled, serviced, etc?

[Silverliner II]

There's only two options recommended for further study: status quo and a transit corridor that includes both light rail and bus.

Frankly that seems reasonable. A heavy rail line that's less than 2 miles long is overkill for the amount of ridership on it, and requires much higher operational costs than LRV and bus options.

Status quo sure won't work with the new equipment, that's for sure. They sure won't use an ALP46 and a cab car as replacements. And I hate to say it, but a light rail line of similar distance is not worth the effort, either. Even the Ashmont-Mattapan line in Boston is longer.

Again you could just go and read the report to find the answers, but status quo literally means status quo, with existing equipment and service levels, not with DMUs, ALPs, or any other nonsense.

Regardless of status quo, the existing equipment won't last forever. It's lucky to have held on this long.

[Silverliner5]

Aren't the Arrow IIIs Retiring late 2024 this year?

[MACTRAXX]

Everyone: The Arrow Three cars have served NJDOT/NJ Transit well since they were built in 1977-1978... They were rebuilt/overhauled during the mid to late 1990s with the thought of 20 or more years of service... They certainly got that - and definitely their money's worth - over time from the Arrow MU car fleet...

When does NJT expect any deliveries to begin of the new multilevel MU cars to replace the Arrows? With the backlog and delays that seem to be a part of any passenger railcar order 2024 deliveries may be overly optimistic - and even then there will be a long test period of months after they arrive...

I feel that the 2.8 mile PJ&B Line should be the last use for a small dedicated fleet of no more than 8 of the single unit cars kept for service on the Princeton Branch Dinky...If necessary a parts stream from retired cars could be kept to keep these "Chosen Few" Arrows running along with some needed redundancy...

Multilevel cars - and any locomotive-hauled one or two car trains will just be too impractical for the Princeton Branch - the Arrow MU cars offer flexibility and speed for the 5 or so minute scheduled runs back and forth... The Dinky is a time-sensitive line - any service that either takes longer or causes connections at PJC not to be met will be shunned by riders and eventually lead to the downfall of the service altogether...

A dedicated small fleet of DMU cars will not just end up being oddballs - they would have to be maintained someplace...What would a small DMU yard/shop facility just to serve the Princeton Branch extra cost be? Ferrying these cars to the MMC or the River Line shop in Camden for maintenance will become a necessary, expensive and time-consuming move for any Princeton Branch DMU fleet...

In closing keeping the Dinky as we all know it: a MU car rail route - looks to be the best NJT option...MACTRAXX