Amtrak Auto Train Discussion

electricron wrote: No coffee and No food both on the train and at the train station, makes for No fun, whether it's provided free as apart of the fare or at an additional charge.

Of course food matters, you will never see an entire train load of passengers packing the next day's breakfast to board a train. And if they had, it would have remained in the car they are waiting to get. It may not be "Murder on the Orient Express", it'll be "Murder on the Auto Train"!

I know its been 10 years, but I thought there was a snack bar at both stations?

I just checked the Amtrak website and...

A full-service gift shop is located within the terminal offering food, beverages and gift items.

So there you go, it's a moot point anyway. If anyone needs to eat or have a cup of coffee while waiting for their car to be unloaded, they can do so inside the station. There is no need for Amtrak to provide them free food, and absolutely no reason this train needs to be scheduled around meal times.

Will there be enough business to profitably employ snack bar workers to cover customers for three different meals vs only the one meal needed today? If two different trains arrive as suggested, waiting, hungry customers will be around during morning, lunch, and dinner - not just for lunch today. It would have to be stocked for three different kinds of meals as well.

Here's links to two photos of the snack bar area at Sanford.
http://yourfirstvisit.net/wp-content/up ... t.net_.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://petecrow.files.wordpress.com/20 ... =504&h=378" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yes, snacks are available, but there's no family sized tables to use. The earlier responses stated a snack bar was available, not a cafe. And yes there is a difference between the two.

Let's get real, the passenger facilities in Sanford and Lorton are designed to handle 600 passengers waiting to board their trains, or waiting for their cars. They are not designed to feed the waiting passengers a hot meal.

deathtopumpkins wrote:

electricron wrote: Your two hours earlier scheme would be better - but still lousy - customer experience. Imagine getting off the train at 7 am, where would you eat breakfast? There's certainly not enough time to do so aboard the train, so now your passenger terminal will have to have the ability to sit and serve breakfast to all the passengers waiting for their cars to be off-loaded. You'll also will have to provide lunch for all the passengers waiting to board the train after dropping off their cars too. On the good side, you'll only have to serve dinner on the train.
The later train also runs into difficultlties with food too. With the late departure, you'll have to find a way to serve dinner to passengers waiting to board the train. You'll have to serve breakfast and lunch on the train. You'll also will have to serve some dinners to all the passengers waiting for their cars.
Now you poor overworked staff at the terminals will have to serve breakfast, lunch, and dinner over two extended shifts.
As it is today, the staff at the terminal only has to provide lunch - sandwiches, chips or fries, and a ice cold drink to just the earliest arriving to board the train and latest departing alighting passengers - if at all.
There's valid reasons why the Auto Train schedule 24 hour clock is set where it is at.

Why? Why would they have to provide breakfast?

Surely we aren't actually scheduling trains around meals? That should be left for the customer to figure out. Besides, even if they're off the train at 7 am, do many people actually eat that early? I know I need at least an hour or two to wake up before I get an appetite. Just wait until you get your car back at 8 or 9 and then stop for breakfast before hitting the road to your destination. Lorton has a Dunk's across the street, and a McD's, BK, and IHOP within a mile. And if you absolutely cannot wait, the Dunk's is, according to Google, an 11-minute walk from the AT station (with full sidewalks, crosswalks, etc.). Sanford doesn't really have anything in walking distance, but they already have a shuttle to the town center, and every fast food restaurant you can dream of is located just 2 miles west where SR 46 meets I-4.

I've never understood the obsession with providing travelers with food. If it's important to you to eat at a specific time, bring food with you. Otherwise, eat when you have the time.

7AM arrival on the Lorton end puts one right in the middle of the DC rush hour gridlock. Oh Joy!

The current 9 AM arrival and 4 PM departures keep AT users out of the worst of DC traffic - NEVER discount DC traffic in whatever plans you may have for Lorton.

electricron wrote:Will there be enough business to profitably employ snack bar workers to cover customers for three different meals vs only the one meal needed today? If two different trains arrive as suggested, waiting, hungry customers will be around during morning, lunch, and dinner - not just for lunch today. It would have to be stocked for three different kinds of meals as well.

Here's links to two photos of the snack bar area at Sanford.
http://yourfirstvisit.net/wp-content/up ... t.net_.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://petecrow.files.wordpress.com/20 ... =504&h=378" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yes, snacks are available, but there's no family sized tables to use. The earlier responses stated a snack bar was available, not a cafe. And yes there is a difference between the two.

Let's get real, the passenger facilities in Sanford and Lorton are designed to handle 600 passengers waiting to board their trains, or waiting for their cars. They are not designed to feed the waiting passengers a hot meal.

600 people sounds like the perfect business for a team of food trucks....

However, I found out the awnser to my own question regarding how the Louisville Auto Train arrived at Sanford; apparently it arrived after the Northbound train departed.

I think that begs the question as to how labor and operations allocated station time. Does this imply that at one point there were two Auto Train equipment sets present or was the rotation so tight that basically there was only a different train present at all times.

Just an anecdote about breakfast on the AT. On one trip north a few years ago we were 'very' early back at Lorton; can't recall exactly but we may have sat on the train at least an hour before the station even opened.

They kept the diner open for sleeper passengers and also believe the lounge was available for coach passengers. Probably because closing at the normal distance before arrival would have been before many were even awake.

Another interesting point, spoke to conductor about why we were so early and he stated we had been behind the Juice Train, and were expedited north along with it.

Return to Reading Company Olney Sta wrote:Another interesting point, spoke to conductor about why we were so early and he stated we had been behind the Juice Train, and were expedited north along with it.

Wow. Just imagine if they could coordinate that every day!

Return to Reading Company Olney Sta wrote:Just an anecdote about breakfast on the AT. On one trip north a few years ago we were 'very' early back at Lorton; can't recall exactly but we may have sat on the train at least an hour before the station even opened.
They kept the diner open for sleeper passengers and also believe the lounge was available for coach passengers. Probably because closing at the normal distance before arrival would have been before many were even awake.

I rode North arriving Lorton 7:30 a.m.Nov. 15, 2015. We had to sit in the train until about 8:30 a.m., because the station crew doesn't start work until 8:00 a.m., and has to attend a Safety Meeting before they can interact with passengers. The Cafe Car attendant stopped selling when we passed Quatico, Va. He explained that he always shuts down at that point, or the time scheduled to pass there, which ever happens earlier. He got off the train as soon as it stopped.
This seems to be standard procedure for most Amtrak On Board Service crews - they get paid for the scheduled time, plus any delay, but only have to exert themselves for the scheduled time, less any early arrival. They are guaranteed time for accounting and closing, which is to be deducted from time serving passengers.

So that explains the cafe cars--I find it so odd that they are constantly closing, even along the NEC. It seems as though they should always be open from the moment a train leaves the originating station until it arrives at the destination--isn't that how European railroads do it?

Speaking from direct experience it is not. The Deutsche Bahn for example shuts down their cafe cars on most trains around 9pm regardless of where they are.

JimBoylan wrote:I rode North arriving Lorton 7:30 a.m.Nov. 15, 2015. We had to sit in the train until about 8:30 a.m., because the station crew doesn't start work until 8:00 a.m., and has to attend a Safety Meeting before they can interact with passengers. The Cafe Car attendant stopped selling when we passed Quatico, Va. He explained that he always shuts down at that point, or the time scheduled to pass there, which ever happens earlier. He got off the train as soon as it stopped.
This seems to be standard procedure for most Amtrak On Board Service crews - they get paid for the scheduled time, plus any delay, but only have to exert themselves for the scheduled time, less any early arrival. They are guaranteed time for accounting and closing, which is to be deducted from time serving passengers.

One my friends who uses the Auto Train every year told me he once on the Southbound trip to Sanford, they got in early at 7:30 there; they had the dining car open plus the cafe untill the station staff was ready; the cafe car attendant said he wasn't open by the time they passed by his "closing point"

TAN: One of the productivity studies about 5 years ago suggested that Amtrak could make some money by opening Cafes and Dining Cars while the passengers were boarding before departure from large originating stations, like Chicago, Ill. Of course, that idea was never cleared with the employees.

The Cascades does that...at origination stations including Vancouver, BC, Eugene, Portland, and Seattle, the Bistro car is open for business at boarding.

SouthernRailway wrote:So that explains the cafe cars--I find it so odd that they are constantly closing, even along the NEC. It seems as though they should always be open from the moment a train leaves the originating station until it arrives at the destination--isn't that how European railroads do it?

Only European trains I've ridden were in Britain - Virgin and Arriva Wales. Virgin's cafe didn't open until ~15 minutes after departure (and closed 15-30 minutes before arrival at the terminal station). Arriva didn't offer food service.

I did make an interesting observation that I think merits discussion - the Virgin cafe was laid out like a convenience store, where you grab whatever you want off of shelves and out of freezer cabinets and bring it up to a register - then the employee prepares anything that needs to be prepared (e.g. hot beverages) and you pay. Perhaps this is something Amtrak could look into to reduce labor costs? I've seen people pass on the cafe car because of the line before, and they could probably get through the line quicker if the cafe car employee didn't have to gather up each customer's purchases for them.

I will note that Virgin didn't offer such things as microwave pizzas though - perhaps that might require Amtrak stick to the current model.