Amtrak 91 - CSX Collision Cayce, SC - 2/4/18

I'm not tech savvy with rules and regs for railroads so therefore I ask the following:

In reference to the signal outage [maintenance?] when do the blue markers or lights get put on the track?

I would hate to be the guy who forgot to realign the switch, then turned on the news in the morning.

SST wrote:I'm not tech savvy with rules and regs for railroads so therefore I ask the following:

In reference to the signal outage [maintenance?] when do the blue markers or lights get put on the track?

Blue light or flag protection is only used when work is being performed on equipment as in train.

8th Notch wrote:

SST wrote:I'm not tech savvy with rules and regs for railroads so therefore I ask the following:

In reference to the signal outage [maintenance?] when do the blue markers or lights get put on the track?

Blue light or flag protection is only used when work is being performed on equipment as in train.

Yea, Blue Flag protection (blue flag on a piece of equipment or a blue lantern) means pretty much "Do not move cause employees are on or around said equipment"

justalurker66 wrote: One rule that was apparently not broken was the speed (unless MAS was slower) ---
300.5 The following speeds must not be exceeded:
b. 59 MPH for passenger trains operating within the limits of a signal suspension or against the current of traffic

Sumwalt confirmed that speed in yesterday's press conference.

It seems like there was some question on here regarding the method of operation on signal suspension, for those of us NORAC qualified on here can see where the Amtrak crew could have possibly been at fault because DCS requires being prepared to stop short of non interlocked facing point switchs. On the right side of things, CSX doesn’t seem to have the exact same wording so in this case the blame just might fall squarely on CSX.

I've been following this from page 1 carefully reading all the posts and as a retired Conrail employee have this question:

If the CSX crew backed(shoved) their train from the main into that siding then isn't this how it would have been done....

Once they pulled North past it ,then they would have had to unlock the switch and manually throw it to diverge off the main to back their train into that siding.

Wouldn't they have left the lock off or have left the shackle in place ,but not locked, knowing that as soon as their train had cleared the switch once into the siding that they would have had to throw it back to it's normal position and then lock it?

Is it possible that they did their job properly but this could be a heinous act of vandalism?

Where does it say that? The NORAC I'm reading doesn't say non-interlocked facing point switches at all.

401. OPERATING IN NON-SIGNALED DCS
TERRITORY
b. Approaching Home Signals, Controlled Point
Signals, and Signals at the Beginning of ABS
Territory
Trains must approach home signals, controlled
point signals, and signals at the beginning of ABS
territory prepared to stop, unless a distant signal is
in service. If a train is delayed after passing a
distant signal, it must approach the home signal or
controlled point signal prepared to stop.

The CSX Rules I'm reading only require stopping to check a facing point switch during a signal outage for spring switches.

So, I don't see where the Amtrak crew broke any rule.

the trainguy wrote:I've been following this from page 1 carefully reading all the posts and as a retired Conrail employee have this question:

If the CSX crew backed(shoved) their train from the main into that siding then isn't this how it would have been done....

Once they pulled North past it ,then they would have had to unlock the switch and manually throw it to diverge off the main to back their train into that siding.

Wouldn't they have left the lock off or have left the shackle in place ,but not locked, knowing that as soon as their train had cleared the switch once into the siding that they would have had to throw it back to it's normal position and then lock it?

Is it possible that they did their job properly but this could be a heinous act of vandalism?

No, unless you were going to be standing at the switch the whole time, you unlock it, line it and lock it back up. You can't even get your keys out of the lock unless you relock the hasp, and you're definitely not going to leave your keys at a switch while you are riding a shove.

the trainguy wrote:Wouldn't they have left the lock off or have left the shackle in place ,but not locked, knowing that as soon as their train had cleared the switch once into the siding that they would have had to throw it back to it's normal position and then lock it?

Some modern switch locks retain the key in the lock until it is closed again. Also, the crew may haved wanted to keep the switch locked while thay moved over it, in case of a visit by neighborhood vandals.

It's been like this for at least 15 years, it's where the term lined and locked comes from. If the switch is locked, you unlock it, line it and lock it back up.

Safety and culture discussion: http://railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=195&t=166902" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Everyone:

I have been also following this topic from the beginning - this for the most part has been a very
indepth discussion about what happened here - what actually shocked me the most is how the
Amfleet Two Cafe car was bent in a V shape in this wreck. Was it the weight and momentum of
the cars behind in particular that caused this to happen?

Something that no one has mentioned is the overhead bridge above the wreck site - none of the
Amtrak cars made contact with the bridge abutment when they derailed am I right?

I recall that there have been derailments under overhead bridges which has caused a collapse
making a bad situation even worse. Thankfully nothing of that sort happened here...

I will not speculate whatsoever on what the cause was and will look to the NTSB investigation
and their forthcoming findings about how this occurred...

MACTRAXX

the csx train had some authoroty to occupy the main to make their moves, and was the last crew to touch the switch. assuming the dispatcher did not issue overlapping track limits, the freight crew gave up their authority without/before normalling the switch.

MACTRAXX wrote:What actually shocked me the most is how the Amfleet Two Cafe car was bent in a V shape in this wreck. Was it the weight and momentum of the cars behind in particular that caused this to happen?

I recall that there have been derailments under overhead bridges which has caused a collapse making a bad situation even worse. Thankfully nothing of that sort happened here.

In the case of Regional 188, the business class car crashed into a catenary post, completely ripping it. The same could have happen had a car crashed into a pillar.

Regarding the Amfleet II lounge bend into a "V", some of the cars at Chase, MD experienced such damage. In fact I see in similarities with Chase, Maryland: crash into stationary locomotives, first cars crushed/bent, and like in the case of 94, both trains had empty cafe/lounge cars in the front that reduced the causality count.