Limited Clear it is then
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Coastline I believe uses the two block system, and maybe the BCL? I know the Raritan line uses single, because I watch the signals light ahead of me up as I pass a signal head going into a block.
No good deed goes unpunished.
Sounds to me like a Limited Clear for a train crossing over in the interlocking to the other track at Lake Hopatcong. Meaning, the track ahead is clear and proceed through the interlocking at a speed not exceeding 45 MPH until the train is clear of it.
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When I stand on the platform in Red Bank, early in the morning, as the eastbound train rounds the bend coming from Little Silver, the signal on the westbound track, facing the westbound train, illuminates. Since the approaching train is on the eastbound track, is this a result of two-block signalling?
It might be depending on where the Eastbound train trips it, but even in 1 block, I still show's westbound signals even if its an Eastbound train, for the possibility that it could get routed onto Track 1 at BANK or elsewhere.
"Q Towah!" - Last of a dying breed
OportRailfan wrote:It might be depending on where the Eastbound train trips it, but even in 1 block, I still show's westbound signals even if its an Eastbound train, for the possibility that it could get routed onto Track 1 at BANK or elsewhere.When signals are approach lit ALL signals on that block and blocks in adjacent tracks light, including signals governing towards an oncomming train. In the circuitry all it is, is one jumper to an attached relay (at least in electro-code systems) that turns this option on and off. When it is on, all signals will illuminate for that block section on all tracks, after the train has left, they will extinguish. Bank is an interesting configuration since its extended interlocking on track 1 all the way west of chestnut to the southern yard where track 2 starts at the west end of the navasink river bridge. The east limits are both east of Navasink river road.
No good deed goes unpunished.
du_dragons wrote:
South (westbound) from Long Branch however, the signal system operates just about the same as it always did... Each track is signalled in one direction only and signals are approach-lit in the normal direction of traffic only. Interlockings (Brielle and Shark, for example) may behave differently. The signal system on the former New York and Long Branch section of the present NJCL was originally signalled and maintained by the CNJ, hence the color-light signals. The section from South Amboy to the NEC at Rahway was PRR territory and was position-light signals.
ns3010 wrote:
In automatic block system territory with straight track and no track switches, a single head signal will usually display clear(G), approach(Y) or stop and proceed(R). A two-head signal will usually display clear(G/R), approach medium(Y/G), approach (Y/R) or stop and proceed(R/R). Approach limited can be displayed if applicable by Y/G where the green is flashing.
Double-head signals at the entrance to an interlocking where there are track switches and the possibility of different routings, or more importantly, different speed routings; are used to display an even greater variety of aspects...
Medium clear (R/G) or limited clear (R/G w/flashing green) usually indicates a diverging move over a track switch on an otherwise "clear" track, with the movement over the switch restricting the speed to either limited or medium speed.
When diverging movements over several different switches are possible, such as switching off of center tracks on 3 or 4 track main lines; the signal does not directly convey the actual route involved. It only conveys that a diverging movement at a particuar speed is involved. It does not tell an engineer, for instance operating westbound on track 3 on the NEC that he may be switching to either track 4 or to track 2 (...assuming both turnouts are the same and are of the same speed...); the signal only tells him that a diverging move at a particular speed is ahead. Most all US signal systems operate this way and are considered "speed" based systems. Many European, the British especially; use different aspects at interlockings to identify the actual "route" the train will travel. As you might expect, these are called "Route Based" signal systems...
When I stand on the platform in Red Bank, early in the morning, as the eastbound train rounds the bend coming from Little Silver, the signal on the westbound track, facing the westbound train, illuminates. Since the approaching train is on the eastbound track, is this a result of two-block signalling?Exactly! The section of the NJCL between Matawan and Long Branch that had signalling upgrades as a result of the electrification to Long Branch operates in this manner. Both tracks are bi-directionally signalled. You can see the same thing happen on the signals just past the station platforms at Middletown and Little Silver.
South (westbound) from Long Branch however, the signal system operates just about the same as it always did... Each track is signalled in one direction only and signals are approach-lit in the normal direction of traffic only. Interlockings (Brielle and Shark, for example) may behave differently. The signal system on the former New York and Long Branch section of the present NJCL was originally signalled and maintained by the CNJ, hence the color-light signals. The section from South Amboy to the NEC at Rahway was PRR territory and was position-light signals.
ns3010 wrote:
...Does each track have two signals governing that particular track, or is each head for a specific routing?The two heads compromise one signal, and both heads operate together. A single-head signal can really only display 3 different aspects, one for each lamp color. You can maybe add a couple if you flash the lamps. In any event, a single-head signal can only display a few basic aspects. When you need to display something more than can be represented by only 3 lamps in one head, then a 2 head signal is used. You will even see three-headed signals used, primarily at the entrance to an interlocking with complex track work.
In automatic block system territory with straight track and no track switches, a single head signal will usually display clear(G), approach(Y) or stop and proceed(R). A two-head signal will usually display clear(G/R), approach medium(Y/G), approach (Y/R) or stop and proceed(R/R). Approach limited can be displayed if applicable by Y/G where the green is flashing.
Double-head signals at the entrance to an interlocking where there are track switches and the possibility of different routings, or more importantly, different speed routings; are used to display an even greater variety of aspects...
Medium clear (R/G) or limited clear (R/G w/flashing green) usually indicates a diverging move over a track switch on an otherwise "clear" track, with the movement over the switch restricting the speed to either limited or medium speed.
When diverging movements over several different switches are possible, such as switching off of center tracks on 3 or 4 track main lines; the signal does not directly convey the actual route involved. It only conveys that a diverging movement at a particuar speed is involved. It does not tell an engineer, for instance operating westbound on track 3 on the NEC that he may be switching to either track 4 or to track 2 (...assuming both turnouts are the same and are of the same speed...); the signal only tells him that a diverging move at a particular speed is ahead. Most all US signal systems operate this way and are considered "speed" based systems. Many European, the British especially; use different aspects at interlockings to identify the actual "route" the train will travel. As you might expect, these are called "Route Based" signal systems...
PRRTechFan wrote:Most all US signal systems operate this way and are considered "speed" based systems.My offhand guess: total mileage of route-signalled track in the US exceeds the speed-signalled total.
Again PRR, thank you for your wealth of info and expanding on the little I put forth!
No good deed goes unpunished.
PRRTechFan wrote:Most all US signal systems operate this way and are considered "speed" based systems. Many European, the British especially; use different aspects at interlockings to identify the actual "route" the train will travel. As you might expect, these are called "Route Based" signal systems..."Speed" systems are not as common as they used to be anymore. Most RR's are dropping the NORAC system for their own rules and on NS on the ex Southern and N&W territories the "Directional" systems are used. Not sure about CSX down south what they do, might be the same. For example rather than getting a "Medium clear", it would be called "Diverging clear" and it is up to the crewmembers to be qualified on the speeds of each interlocking switch. The ex CR territories are still being operated with the NORAC speed style signals though.
They have a pill for that!
My understanding is that speed-signalling is common in the Northeast, but that route-signalling (i.e. "Diverging-Clear" instead of "medium-clear") is common in the West. 
My offhand guess: total mileage of route-signalled track in the US exceeds the speed-signalled total.If you review your signal rules for western roads, specifically Union Pacific, you will see that their already weak route systems are becoming increasingly speed based. As UP has added more and more 40, 50, 60mph high speed turnouts they have implemented speed signaling for this. The old diverging" label has become a stand-in for "medium".
"Speed" systems are not as common as they used to be anymore.That's not true. Where lines have had their signal rules changed (like Caltrain) it has been to full speed signaling or had new speed aspects added.
Not sure about CSX down south what they do, might be the same.CSX is 100% speed signaled. Only the former N&W and SOU territory is weak route signaled.
Getting back to approach lighting, NJT and Amtrak (on the ACL) are the exception having both directions of a 261 signal illuminate when a train is in either adjacent block. Conrail only lit the signals when a train was in the block before the signal and I have seen the same on CSX. I have always appreciated the two block system as it gives one proper warning of when a train is coming and thus when you get into a good position to take a picture.
NJT's policy of 1 mile blocks also works nicely with the approach lighting as on a dark night you can watch the next signals light up as you pass the first set.
Jersey_Mike wrote:
Getting back to approach lighting, NJT and Amtrak (on the ACL) are the exception having both directions of a 261 signal illuminate when a train is in either adjacent block. Conrail only lit the signals when a train was in the block before the signal and I have seen the same on CSX. I have always appreciated the two block system as it gives one proper warning of when a train is coming and thus when you get into a good position to take a picture.
NJT's policy of 1 mile blocks also works nicely with the approach lighting as on a dark night you can watch the next signals light up as you pass the first set.
What do you mean by a "261 signal"? I'm guessing you mean two automatics back to back? Just cause its 261territory doesn't mean all the signals are back to back. Theres a few signals, but I know L60 does not light when westbound trains are in the block.
Jersey_Mike wrote:Getting back to approach lighting, NJT and Amtrak (on the ACL) are the exception having both directions of a 261 signal illuminate when a train is in either adjacent block.There are a handful of signals on all lines that do not light until the opposing movement has passed them completely.
Since were talking about signals here, why do the ACL line signals look so odd compared to those on the NJCL and RVL? They have the same configuration with the lights but they seem taller, is there any reason for this?
Last edited by Kaback9 on Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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