NJT signal indications

OK folks, as much as I love signal and rule discussions, this is not SEPTA. This is NJT.

nick11a wrote:OK folks, as much as I love signal and rule discussions, this is not SEPTA. This is NJT.

See what happens when one mentions wondering if a Cab Speed signal is used outside of the NEC?

Then to steer back on track from when Rule 562 was mentioned...did they remove the SES off the Pascack Valley Line when they installed the passing sidings and replace it with a Rule 261/562/CSS system?

Hmmm.... 'steer' back on track...I should rephrase that somehow....

Silverliner II wrote:Then to steer back on track from when Rule 562 was mentioned...did they remove the SES off the Pascack Valley Line when they installed the passing sidings and replace it with a Rule 261/562/CSS system?

Yes. All traces of SES have been removed from the PV Line. The entire line is ABS 261 with 562 signaling.

Also, unlike the Gladstone branch where both ends of a passing siding are part of the same interlocking, on the Valley each end of a passing siding is its own interlocking. (East Cole / West Cole)

sullivan1985 wrote:

Silverliner II wrote:Then to steer back on track from when Rule 562 was mentioned...did they remove the SES off the Pascack Valley Line when they installed the passing sidings and replace it with a Rule 261/562/CSS system?

Yes. All traces of SES have been removed from the PV Line. The entire line is ABS 261 with 562 signaling.

Also, unlike the Gladstone branch where both ends of a passing siding are part of the same interlocking, on the Valley each end of a passing siding is its own interlocking. (East Cole / West Cole)

What? How can it be ABS 261 with 562 signaling when rule 562 is cab signals with no block signals and the only waysides are at interlockings.

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:

sullivan1985 wrote:

Silverliner II wrote:Then to steer back on track from when Rule 562 was mentioned...did they remove the SES off the Pascack Valley Line when they installed the passing sidings and replace it with a Rule 261/562/CSS system?

Yes. All traces of SES have been removed from the PV Line. The entire line is ABS 261 with 562 signaling.

Also, unlike the Gladstone branch where both ends of a passing siding are part of the same interlocking, on the Valley each end of a passing siding is its own interlocking. (East Cole / West Cole)

What? How can it be ABS 261 with 562 signaling when rule 562 is cab signals with no block signals and the only waysides are at interlockings.

I dont know but thats what the book says. ABS 261 562 CSS from pascack jct and plank for example. Between the interlockings of the passing sidings its INT 562 CSS rules.

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:What? How can it be ABS 261 with 562 signaling when rule 562 is cab signals with no block signals and the only waysides are at interlockings.

Good question. It seems odd, and I didn't understand it myself until it was explained at a rules class. While 562 is a cab signal only system, it is still an automatic block signal system. The signals, cab signals in this case, operate automatically based upon the conditions of the track in the block of that signal and the aspect of the next signal. If the system is bi-directional, it operates just like 261. Even though 562 sets out most of the rules for operation without fixed ABS, situations not covered by rule 562 are instead covered by ABS rules. For example, entering the main at a hand operated switch.

Sirsonic wrote:

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:What? How can it be ABS 261 with 562 signaling when rule 562 is cab signals with no block signals and the only waysides are at interlockings.

Good question. It seems odd, and I didn't understand it myself until it was explained at a rules class. While 562 is a cab signal only system, it is still an automatic block signal system. The signals, cab signals in this case, operate automatically based upon the conditions of the track in the block of that signal and the aspect of the next signal. If the system is bi-directional, it operates just like 261. Even though 562 sets out most of the rules for operation without fixed ABS, situations not covered by rule 562 are instead covered by ABS rules. For example, entering the main at a hand operated switch.

Now ask a certain person about the "NO FIXED ABS" signs on amtrak and prepare for an hour long tirade on why they're wrong.

Ha ha. Well, there are no Fixed Automatic Block Signals... Sounds like someone is assuming what they meant by ABS on those signs

Sirsonic wrote:

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:What? How can it be ABS 261 with 562 signaling when rule 562 is cab signals with no block signals and the only waysides are at interlockings.

Good question. It seems odd, and I didn't understand it myself until it was explained at a rules class. While 562 is a cab signal only system, it is still an automatic block signal system. The signals, cab signals in this case, operate automatically based upon the conditions of the track in the block of that signal and the aspect of the next signal. If the system is bi-directional, it operates just like 261. Even though 562 sets out most of the rules for operation without fixed ABS, situations not covered by rule 562 are instead covered by ABS rules. For example, entering the main at a hand operated switch.

Well I understand that its rule 261 in 562 territory but Im still trying to understand the abs rules in 562 territory. Ok Let me wake up and I will get back to ya.Haha. I will think about that when I work Sunnyside overnight....

jimzim66 wrote:

Sirsonic wrote:

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:What? How can it be ABS 261 with 562 signaling when rule 562 is cab signals with no block signals and the only waysides are at interlockings.

Good question. It seems odd, and I didn't understand it myself until it was explained at a rules class. While 562 is a cab signal only system, it is still an automatic block signal system. The signals, cab signals in this case, operate automatically based upon the conditions of the track in the block of that signal and the aspect of the next signal. If the system is bi-directional, it operates just like 261. Even though 562 sets out most of the rules for operation without fixed ABS, situations not covered by rule 562 are instead covered by ABS rules. For example, entering the main at a hand operated switch.

Now ask a certain person about the "NO FIXED ABS" signs on amtrak and prepare for an hour long tirade on why they're wrong.

Are we talking ab out a certain rules guy who had to go back running out of Philly???

Waaaay off topic here, but inquiring minds (well, mine) want to know, since your speaking of the rules dept in NY, what ever happened to T.T.? Anyone who had to qualify on the Metropolitan Division (later changed back to the New York Division) certainly would have met him.

T.T. is working out of Philly as a dispatcher.....i believe he is working on the harrisburg line (section C i believe) or CTEC4 but im not 100 percent certain

shame too...we could really use him and the other former guys to "break in" new qualifiers......

Sirsonic wrote:

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:What? How can it be ABS 261 with 562 signaling when rule 562 is cab signals with no block signals and the only waysides are at interlockings.

Good question. It seems odd, and I didn't understand it myself until it was explained at a rules class. While 562 is a cab signal only system, it is still an automatic block signal system. The signals, cab signals in this case, operate automatically based upon the conditions of the track in the block of that signal and the aspect of the next signal. If the system is bi-directional, it operates just like 261. Even though 562 sets out most of the rules for operation without fixed ABS, situations not covered by rule 562 are instead covered by ABS rules. For example, entering the main at a hand operated switch.

Easy way it was explained to me - There are 3 main track rules

ABS
DCS
Interlocking

CSS works WITH ABS and Interlocking rules

So the stretch of track has to be something - for example, inbetween Portal and Swift, is 562. However, its NOT interlocking rules. Its "562" - but it NEEDS a main track rule. Therefore, its ABS. Other places there are interlocking rules in effect in 562 territory, and not ABS.

Now that you have explained it Sir, the 261/562 makes sense now. I wondered that myself, but it does make sense with the entering the main at a hand operated switch, as there still is a good bit of freight up there on the PVL. At least yard limits have been retired! That would be interesting if that was still in effect!

The "No Fixed ABS" signs are technically incorrect, however, what it means is that there are no fixed automatic SIGNALS. Same with the Distant signal markers. They act as a reminder for trains with CSS cut out, that you are entering territory with no fixed automatic signals, and only Cab signals inbetween interlockings. (except the distant signal marker in the North Tube going east - that seems to have been forgotten). They don't mean the same as the same Distant Signal markers on non-css territory. Its explained in the Amtrak SI.

So where are you getting ABS from Portal to swift? Book says Bergen& hudson is 562/Int and the notes dont say anything about ABS rules included there. If your going from A to bergen 562 is in effect and the notes say "On tracks where 562 is in effect, rule 261, abs rules and CSS rules 550 through 563 (except rules 554&556) are in effect for movements in both directions.

Jtgshu wrote: The "No Fixed ABS" signs are technically incorrect, however, what it means is that there are no fixed automatic SIGNALS. Same with the Distant signal markers. They act as a reminder for trains with CSS cut out, that you are entering territory with no fixed automatic signals, and only Cab signals inbetween interlockings. (except the distant signal marker in the North Tube going east - that seems to have been forgotten). They don't mean the same as the same Distant Signal markers on non-css territory. Its explained in the Amtrak SI.

I was just going to ask about that distant signal marker, I noticed it the other day leaving NY. Why is it there?