Tunnel Box

Backshophoss wrote:Hopefully Amtrak has the construction records (or a copy)of the orignal build that PRR did,could follow the same general plan
of the orignal tunnels as far as grades and how deep to build it. Some where in those records is how PRR dealt with the Bulkhead.
What little of Yard "A" that is left will disappear when the "Box" is built.
The Fan Room for the east end of the new tunnels will be built at the same time as the "Box".

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 0#p1189518" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Where will the fan room be?

What are the three designated phases?

Thomas wrote:But will the tunnel box be completed by Fall, 2014? Also, do you know any other engineering studies being done to figure out how to best design Gateway, such as the new trans-hudson tunnels or what part of ARC can be used?

The tunnel box will be completed by Summer 2015. There's some preliminary work being done now, but not a whole lot yet. Bids are due the middle of next month for the Final Design contract.

What is the probability that the Gateway Project--after the tunnel box gets completed--goes years and years without starting construction on the other segments?

Thomas wrote:What is the probability that the Gateway Project--after the tunnel box gets completed--goes years and years without starting construction on the other segments?

You should be asking this question in the thread on the overall Gateway project. If we are going to have a thread on the Hudson Yards tunnel box, the discussion should stay focused on the box tunnel part of the bigger plan. How is the tunnel going to be built, where, the design, schedule, does the tunnel allow for a split for tunnels to a new lower level south of NYP, etc. Discussions and questions about the bigger picture of the Gateway project should be in the Gateway project thread.

that said, the short answer to your question is probably no one really knows. Depends on how the funding requests play out in a dysfunctional House and barely functioning Senate.

It looks like the funding has been allocated.


A brief fair use quote:

Tunnel vision improving: Gateway commuter rail tunnel to NYC to receive $185M


http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/0 ... nel_t.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NEW YORK — The proposed Gateway Tunnel, an alternative to the Hudson River commuter rail tunnel terminated three years ago by Gov. Chris Christie, is getting $185 million in federal aid for its critical first segment.

The money will pay for the so-called "tunnel box," an 800-foot concrete encasement to be built between 11th and 10th avenues on Manhattan’s West Side to preserve the tunnel right-of-way while the massive Hudson Yards office and housing project is constructed around it.

The news was first reported this morning by The Star-Ledger on its online home, NJ.com.

Amtrak’s Gateway Tunnel would run from Secaucus to the south side of an expanded New York Penn Station in Manhattan and allow 13 more NJ Transit trains during peak hours — for a total of 33 — and eight additional Amtrak trains.

25Hz wrote:

Don31 wrote:

25Hz wrote:http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac19 ... b6e85c.jpg

Shotgun?

Gotcha. That must be a technical term. I just call it a two-cell reinforced concrete cut-and-cover tunnel.

I guess i was asking if the preferred alternative was going to be solid concrete vs some sort of multi-part assemblage.

I think the question is about Shotcrete. Think of Shotcrete as being like concrete coming out of a fire hose at high pressure and sticking to the wall.

When they drill, blast, jackhammer or whatever's necessary to cut away the rock, the exposed rock surface will be rough and jagged. The concrete will be sprayed on at high pressure filling all the pores, cracks, fissures and other irregularities until they have a relatively smooth, stable surface. Then a waterproof membrane will be pressed against the surface to protect the tunnel from leaks.

Finally, a structurally strong reinforced concrete tunnel (or box) will be poured inside the waterproof membrane.

No I wasn't asking about shotcrete. I was asking if the preferred alternative would resemble a double barrel shotgun's double barrels. It will. Shotcrete isn't structural, it's only used to shore up embankments and tunnels.

The "box" belmouth is large enough for 2 side by side bores "a la" shotgun,following the Empire Connection bore like a "Triple Barrel"
for a short lenght.

Does 800 feet refer to the length of both tunnel boxes combined or just one?

Thomas wrote:Does 800 feet refer to the length of both tunnel boxes combined or just one?

Its one structure ("box", if you will) that contains two bores. It will be approximately 800 feet in length.

Don31 wrote:

Thomas wrote:Does 800 feet refer to the length of both tunnel boxes combined or just one?

Its one structure ("box", if you will) that contains two bores. It will be approximately 800 feet in length.

I tend to forget that not everyone can visualize things in 3 dimensions, but the structure is going to be 800 by 35 by 25 or whatever the diagram numbers specify on width & height.

It appears that Amtrak got the engineering dimensions of the tunnel box completed in a rather short time. Now, it would nice if Amtrak could also expedite engineering for the other segments of the Gateway Project once funding becomes available...

Thomas wrote:It appears that Amtrak got the engineering dimensions of the tunnel box completed in a rather short time. Now, it would nice if Amtrak could also expedite engineering for the other segments of the Gateway Project once funding becomes available...

Before the rest of my reply, gonna advocate thread merging again.

Like i said before, there are 3 phases. First phase involves a re-align of the elizabeth S curve, and other interlocking-y physical plant-y stuff in NJ allowing for maximum capacity use of the new trans-hudson tunnels. Phase 2 involves a stretch between newark penn and the bergen portal. This will include re-working of the entire ROW, an additional main line track through newark penn station, a 3 track portal bridge that would then lead to the 2 tracks of the tunnel. In essence, phase 2 will connect the tunnels, penn station south, etc to the rest of the NEC. Phase 3 is the tunnels and penn station south and fan plants etc etc etc. Part of phase 3 will involve changing the interlocking diagram and programming for the dispatch control center to show the new platform tracks and such.

Lot of attention is being payed to the new tunnels, and forgotten is all the work that will be done in NJ, work that will fix existing issues as well as help tie in the new tunnels. As i've said before, this is no less than a regional megaproject, and if i'm ever going to be a foamer, it's going to be over this whole thing being completed and in service with the new ACS locos.... but, you gotta have patience grasshopper!

25Hz wrote:

Thomas wrote:It appears that Amtrak got the engineering dimensions of the tunnel box completed in a rather short time. Now, it would nice if Amtrak could also expedite engineering for the other segments of the Gateway Project once funding becomes available...

.

Like i said before, there are 3 phases. First phase involves a re-align of the elizabeth S curve, and other interlocking-y physical plant-y stuff in NJ allowing for maximum capacity use of the new trans-hudson tunnels.

Lot of attention is being payed to the new tunnels, and forgotten is all the work that will be done in NJ, work that will fix existing issues as well as help tie in the new tunnels. As i've said before, this is no less than a regional megaproject, and if i'm ever going to be a foamer, it's going to be over this whole thing being completed and in service with the new ACS locos.... but, you gotta have patience grasshopper!

Elizabeth and the rest of the NJ work west of Newark are not part of the Gateway program. They're part of NEC-UP, the 2015-2025 upgrade program.