Paoli Thorndale Line Funding Threatened

There's a move afoot in congress to slash AMTRAK funding yet again.

While this is nothing new, it now calls for state-supported lines (like the Keystone Corridor) to become 100% State-Funded.

This would require Pennsylvania to assume all operational costs of the Philadelphia to Pittsburgh and all points inbetween.

It would also enable AMTRAK to idle the corridor.

If that occurs, the following SEPTA RRD lines would discontinue operation:

Paoli Thorndale
Cynwyd

From the press release:

"Rail – The Federal Railroad Administration is funded at $1.3 billion, which is $7 billion below the President’s request and $36 million above last year’s level. Of this amount, $1.1 billion is targeted to Amtrak, primarily for capital improvements to the nation’s rail lines. The bill also includes policy reforms for Amtrak, such as requiring overtime limits on Amtrak employees to reduce unnecessary costs, and reinstates a provision that prohibits federal funding for routes where Amtrak offers a discount of 50% or more off normal, peak fares. In addition, the bill does not include funding for High Speed Rail or Intercity Passenger Rail Service. "


Take some time to reads the entire press release below:

http://appropriations.house.gov/News/Do ... tID=258659

Bob, you're really blowing this out of proportion. There's no way that Paoli/Thorndale service will ever shut down as long as the rails are clear and the trains are ready to roll.

That's like saying they're going to close 76 and 95 because they can't afford to maintain the highways anymore. It's completely and totally unrealisitic.

Scott, I dont agree.

Please lell me how you see this playing out if PA has to foot the bill for corridor operation 100%?

Scott, Comparing roads to rails is like comparing apples to oranges. Congress is making that claim that 'we can't afford it." Although Bob's being a bit extreme, it is a possibility.

However, I don't think it would result in full suspension of the line. If anything, I'd expect Amtrak to stop service and SEPTA given additional subsidy to extend limited service to Harrisburg.

Funding for Paoli-Thorndale is not threatened per se unless Septa is having issues with money and funding. The funding that is being threatened is Amtrak's. Amtrak is already putting the word out to its employee's that things arent looking so good. Amtrak OWNS the railroad all the way to Harrisburg, and Amtrak employees STAFF the towers so if Amtrak has to cut or shut down, do you think there will really be employees to staff the towers on the line? NO. I doubt we will ever see Septa go to Harrisburg and part of the reason is because it is outside its service area. Why pay Septa to do it when Amtrak is handling the service just fine. With that said, this is where issues with the NEC and HBG line come into play. The threat and the fear is real. Many railroaders could very well be out of a job including myself and many passengers will be inconvienced. Will see what happens. I just hope this is all posturing by the Republicans and some kind of compromise can be made.

Well, I could see Amtrak severely limiting service on the Keystone line, and all of the advancements that we made to improve that corridor would essentially be for naught.

It's unfathomable that Paoli-Thorndale Line service would cease to exist. Besides the incredibly high ridership, think of the area it runs through. The residents/business community/colleges won't let that line go away...at least not without a bitter, ugly fight.

It's also quite a shame to see how this is affecting Amtrak and its employees. They've been doing a decent job with what they have, yet constantly are being kicked in the rear end when it comes to investing in the organization.

I guess my point is that if AMTRAK contstructively idles the line for financial reasons, and pulls its tower operators, SEPTA cannot run on the line.

Since Amtrak now only operates the Harrisburg trains and one round trip to and from Pittsburgh, losing the corridor is no big deal for them since they would not run it without the state subsidy anyway.

The only reason SEPTA runs to Delaware is because Delaware is paying the subsidy.

Gone are the days when Chicago service ran on the line.

If anyone thinks I'm overreacting, lets discuss it on a train ride to Barmouth.

The Region and in fact the whole state needs to push for the creation of an AMTRAK Pennsylvania as they did in California to protect the line.

how about a statewide rail operator that does ALL passenger rail service in the state. It could be called the "Pennsylvania Railroad".

SEPTA and PennDOT pay for most of the line as it is so it would be rash for Amtrak to cancel service. OTOH, the line is already hurt by SEPTA's lack of money since plans to upgrade its service territory have been on hold.

Suburban Station wrote:SEPTA and PennDOT pay for most of the line as it is so it would be rash for Amtrak to cancel service.

It doesn't matter. If Amtrak has a marginal loss on the service or on operating the infrastructure for SEPTA, even one dollar, they'd shut it down.

SEPTA will probably shut down all of the other lines and ONLY run the "Main Line".

I agree with Bob and Matt that restrictions on funding that results in Amtrak employees being reomved from Harrisburg Line operating facilities means SEPTA service also has to be shut down.

I also believe, however, that residents along the Main Line, as a concentration of people in the top 1% income bracket, command enough power with the goverment of the Commonwealth of PA, that - at the very least - SEPTA service east of Frazer would continue in some form by virtue of payments from Pennsylvania to Amtrak.

The Cynwyd Line I'm not sure about. There is the urban legend about a power broker that intervened to maintain service because his mother was unhappy about the the Cynwyd line discontinuance.

Why would anyone believe that the Tea Party elements in congress are bluffing? They don't ride in trains, they ride in limos. And Amtrak is (gasp) a public sector entity.

Messieurs Clearfield and Mitchell...I've ridden that line either from Downingtown or Thorndale for almost 19 years, so I have a vested interest in its continued existence.

What would be your recommended approach for next steps? Is it too early in the game to start getting the message out to constituents (local government, riders, employers, etc)? I'd think we need to balance this in the sense if it is too early we don't want to be accused of being an alarmist. On the other hand, by my rough count from what I glean off of the SEPTA reports, there are close to 11,000 daily riders on that line- advocacy can't start soon enough...

The western edge of the Paoli/Downingtown corridor have plans that hinge on access to public transportation. If access to public transportation changes, IMO, it would imperil the redevelopment of Downingtown, Thorndale/Caln, Coatesville, etc.

Fiscally, we all know times are tough- the problem is we are quickly going to reach a point where cuts will have a ripple effect and further dampen growth.

Thank you for starting this post- I look forward to your response.

Pres93 wrote:What would be your recommended approach for next steps? Is it too early in the game to start getting the message out to constituents (local government, riders, employers, etc)? I'd think we need to balance this in the sense if it is too early we don't want to be accused of being an alarmist. On the other hand, by my rough count from what I glean off of the SEPTA reports, there are close to 11,000 daily riders on that line- advocacy can't start soon enough...

Right now, write letters and op-eds for local newspapers talking about the importance of this line to your county and township (you already have shown you understand the issues), telling people that the governor's hand-picked transportation funding commission has reported that the state has a very large gap between rail and highway transportation needs and the funds currently being made available for them, and that the legislature and the governor ought to take action on that report now.

The key recommendations (see www.tfac.pa.gov) are to lift the cap on the oil company franchise tax enacted in 1983 (so it's not a new tax) and to transfer State Police costs out of the transportation budget and into the general fund portion of the state budget.

Bill R. wrote:Why would anyone believe that the Tea Party elements in congress are bluffing? They don't ride in trains, they ride in limos. And Amtrak is (gasp) a public sector entity.

Total non-sequitir.