• Paoli Thorndale Line Funding Threatened

  • Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.
Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

Moderator: AlexC

  by amtrakowitz
 
Clearfield wrote:Scott, I dont agree.

Please lell me how you see this playing out if PA has to foot the bill for corridor operation 100%?
Where exactly does it say that in the page you cited? I see absolutely nothing of the sort there.
5 - Dyre Avenue wrote:It is posturing by the Republicans. They will say we need to make sacrifices and that government spends way too much money like they always do (even well before our current economic quagmire). Truth is, this is legislature proposed by a few hard-right Republicans who did so because their puppetmasters in the oil industry (the Koch brothers) pulled their strings to get them to
?!?!?

Please, let us dispense with conspiracy theories here and stick to facts.
  by rdgrailfan
 
McCain measure defeated in Senate

Rep. Patty Murray, D-Wash., said McCain's amendment went too far. She said that Amtrak operates more than 126 stations in 41 states that are registered as historic places and that the railroad would be unable to upgrade or use under McCain's measure.

"That would cripple Amtrak," she said.

McCain offered his provision to a wide-ranging $128 billion bill financing the Transportation Department and other agencies for the federal budget year that began on Oct. 1.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... fd494316e9
  by Clearfield
 
rdgrailfan wrote:McCain measure defeated in Senate
This is the House, not the Senate. Diffreent bill.
  by #5 - Dyre Ave
 
amtrakowitz wrote:
5 - Dyre Avenue wrote:It is posturing by the Republicans. They will say we need to make sacrifices and that government spends way too much money like they always do (even well before our current economic quagmire). Truth is, this is legislature proposed by a few hard-right Republicans who did so because their puppetmasters in the oil industry (the Koch brothers) pulled their strings to get them to
?!?!?

Please, let us dispense with conspiracy theories here and stick to facts.
So what do you think it is then, if it's not political posturing? If it's not special-interest groups or corporate donors, then who or what do you think motivates members of Congress to propose this and previous bills that call for slashing or eliminating Amtrak's funding?

For the record, I don't think Keystone Corridor service is threatened, at least not from Philadelphia to Harrisburg. The state has invested too much in the route to let that happen. Though it would be nice to see some more investment west of Harrisburg and have a few more Keystone trains continue on to Pittsburgh.
  by Clearfield
 
#5 - Dyre Ave wrote:For the record, I don't think Keystone Corridor service is threatened, at least not from Philadelphia to Harrisburg. The state has invested too much in the route to let that happen. Though it would be nice to see some more investment west of Harrisburg and have a few more Keystone trains continue on to Pittsburgh.
The Keystone Corridor OWNED by AMTRAK only extends as far as Harrisburg.

On what basis do you feel the Keystone Corridor isn't threatened?
  by #5 - Dyre Ave
 
Feel isn't the word. Believe is. And Amtrak ownership of the Keystone Corridor is exactly why I believe its service isn't threatened. Amtrak, together with PennDOT, have invested a lot of money in this corridor to improve the rails, the stations, the train frequencies and speeds and the catenary and now you have speeds of up to 110 mph and 14 round trips per weekday between H'burg and Philly. Amtrak runs more frequently between Philly and H'burg than they do between Los Angeles and San Diego (only 11 roundtrips per weekday, 12 on weekends). Gone are the days of jointed rail, chnging power in Philly and two-hour express trips between the two cities. Ridership on this route is much higher than it was in the 90s when it looked like Amtrak was quitting on Keystone. You really think Amtrak is just going to idle the corridor?

Amtrak has been making similar improvements in, California, Washington State and North Carolina (higher frequency and speeds) and are attempting to do the same in Illinois. But unlike Keystone, they're attempting to improve the service on "someone else's railroad." In NC, Illinois, California and Washington, they have to deal with freight ownership and in some cases single-track alignment. It would be so much easier to quit running service there than to idle the Keystone Corridor. Fortunately, in all four of those states, they have been fortunate to have willing partners in the state governments. But only one of those corridors runs more frequently than Keystone - the San Joaquin Corridor with 16 round trips per weekday between Oakland and Sacramento.

And don't forget, this is Congress we're talking about. That bill is not going to go to the House floor for a vote as is. Some parts will have to be changed or dropped from the bill completely. I can see the part about reinstating the provision prohibiting Federal funding for corridors where Amtrak offers a 50% or more discount being one of them.
  by Clearfield
 
#5 - Dyre Ave wrote:Gone are the days of jointed rail, chnging power in Philly and two-hour express trips between the two cities. Ridership on this route is much higher than it was in the 90s when it looked like Amtrak was quitting on Keystone. You really think Amtrak is just going to idle the corridor?
Since AMTRAK is not a 'for profit' company, it can abandon the infrastructure work with impunity since it wasn't their money to begin with.

Since the only passenger trains on the Keystone Corridor are subsidized by PA, they could idle the line and devote capital dollars elsewhere.

The Paoli-Throndale line is a microcosm of the bigger issue. Think of it as a fly on the back of an elephant (no political intent here).
  by motor
 
#5 - Dyre Ave wrote:But only one of those corridors runs more frequently than Keystone - the San Joaquin Corridor with 16 round trips per weekday between Oakland and Sacramento.
Isn't that corridor called the Capitol Corridor?

motor
  by Matthew Mitchell
 
motor wrote:
#5 - Dyre Ave wrote:But only one of those corridors runs more frequently than Keystone - the San Joaquin Corridor with 16 round trips per weekday between Oakland and Sacramento.
Isn't that corridor called the Capitol Corridor?
Yes, but there's overlap. The Capitol Corridor is the direct San Jose-Oakland-Sacramento service.

The San Joaquin corridor from Bakersfield and LA divides at Stockton with some trains continuing to Oakland and others to Sacramento. Bus connections serve the other terminal.
  by Amtrak67 of America
 
From the notice I saw in the Philly crew base, There would only be 2 trains a day(1 each way on the HBG Line)and although I didnt see train numbers, Im going to take a stab that it will be 42-43 to Pittsburgh? I just hope this is postering by all parties involved and nothing more. The effects on Septa would be bad. Whether All trains are striped away from the line or all but 2, I cant see block operators being paid all day to work for just 2 trains a day. Septa would be stopped in its tracks. Septa isnt going to run service to Lancaster or to Harrisburg since its outside there service zone and if the state isnt going to pay Amtrak to do it, why would anyone think Septa would be paid to run this service? Septa has no interest in the service(Lancaster and HBG) anyways. If Septa were smart, they should better start stringing the wire and rehabbing the track to West chester ;)
  by M&Eman
 
Amtrak67 of America wrote:From the notice I saw in the Philly crew base, There would only be 2 trains a day(1 each way on the HBG Line)and although I didnt see train numbers, Im going to take a stab that it will be 42-43 to Pittsburgh? I just hope this is postering by all parties involved and nothing more. The effects on Septa would be bad. Whether All trains are striped away from the line or all but 2, I cant see block operators being paid all day to work for just 2 trains a day. Septa would be stopped in its tracks. Septa isnt going to run service to Lancaster or to Harrisburg since its outside there service zone and if the state isnt going to pay Amtrak to do it, why would anyone think Septa would be paid to run this service? Septa has no interest in the service(Lancaster and HBG) anyways. If Septa were smart, they should better start stringing the wire and rehabbing the track to West chester ;)
If Amtrak is committed to running even one of their own trains over that railroad, there will continue to be a railroad and associated infrastructure to run SEPTA on. A railroad is required by law to be manned 24/7 if it is in service. That said, I think this threat to the Keystone is absurd anyway, just a scare tactic. It won't actually happen; PA legislators who rely on this train to get between their Philly-area constituencies and the State House would ensure something is put in place.
  by Matthew Mitchell
 
M&Eman wrote:It won't actually happen; PA legislators who rely on this train to get between their Philly-area constituencies and the State House would ensure something is put in place.
As far as I know, there is exactly one PA legislator who relies on the train to get to Harrisburg. The rest use their state-leased cars.
  by scotty269
 
Matthew Mitchell wrote:
M&Eman wrote:It won't actually happen; PA legislators who rely on this train to get between their Philly-area constituencies and the State House would ensure something is put in place.
As far as I know, there is exactly one PA legislator who relies on the train to get to Harrisburg. The rest use their state-leased cars.
Who is the 1?
  by Amtrak67 of America
 
I have never seen ANYTHING in writing that a railroad needs to be 24-7 operation if only 1 train runs. Case in point are the tourist railroads like NH&I and Strasburg RR. Both are common carriers and both are staffed 24-7. Maybe thats comparing apples and oranges but my point is, its not 24-7. If in the future Amtrak is only allowed to run just 2 trains on the line because of funding, you mark my words where both trains are on the railroad around the same time(same goes for any local freight) and after that, the block operators go home. The HBG line is different from other lines because they still USE Towers. Before the HBG line was rebuilt, the old Park tower was only open part time and that was generally when track work was being done. The key word is part time and this is the point Im trying to make. The threat for this line is very real. Yes the federal government spent large amounts of money on rehabbing this line. So what?They havent wasted money on other projects before? Turboliners etc etc etc? Of course it doesnt make sense but neither does politics and the whole bantering thats going on of privitaizing Amtrak. Does what Mica have to say make any sense?
  by Matthew Mitchell
 
Babette Josephs of Center City