Paoli Thorndale Line Funding Threatened

Pres93 wrote:Messieurs Clearfield and Mitchell...I've ridden that line either from Downingtown or Thorndale for almost 19 years, so I have a vested interest in its continued existence.

I have a vested interest as well - I ride the Keystone to Lancaster weekly.

I'm concerned that prople will not take this seriously. Since Cynwyd branches off of the line, it is in danger as well.

The Keystone corridor would make one heck of a trail if WE let it happen.

Clearfield wrote:

Pres93 wrote:Messieurs Clearfield and Mitchell...I've ridden that line either from Downingtown or Thorndale for almost 19 years, so I have a vested interest in its continued existence.

I have a vested interest as well - I ride the Keystone to Lancaster weekly.

I'm concerned that prople will not take this seriously. Since Cynwyd branches off of the line, it is in danger as well.

The Keystone corridor would make one heck of a trail if WE let it happen.

Scotty, lets hope thats all it is. The air around work is that its not. Quite honestly , Im a tad scared.

Isn't the Paoli-Thorndale and Lansdale-Doylestown lines SEPTA's cash cows? Service and ridership is just to great to shut down (EVEN ON THE CYNWYD LINE), even if Amtrak pulls out. If anything SEPTA should see the opportunity to buy the line and own it like they do with every other line on the Reading side. I know they're too strapped to do that though.

Also I heard something about turning the Keystone Corridor into rail trail???? That's a MAIN line. Even if Amtrak was to pull out, the freights would take it way before they pave a single inch of that corridor.

N-Trizzy2609 wrote:Isn't the Paoli-Thorndale and Lansdale-Doylestown lines SEPTA's cash cows?

Paoli-Thorndale is tops in ridership, but it does not cover all its operating costs from the farebox. And absent Amtrak trains on the line sharing the cost, that cost-recovery would be worse.

If Amtrak halts service on the Keystone Corridor because of cuts in federal funding, or because of conditions attached to that funding, the choices for SEPTA will be to put up more money, cut service drastically, or both.[/quote]

jb9152 wrote:Total non-sequitir

Let me make it very easy for you, jb9152.

I transitioned from talking about the potential impact, and the possible response, of the residents along the Main Line, to talking about the actions of the Congressional Republicans who are part of the same political party that many of the wealthy Main Line residents support. Essentially, Main Line residents are potentially being screwed by their own.

Perhaps I might have done a better job in making the transition by including a quote from Bob Clearfield's post. But the point to be made is that this type of funding policy reflects the "I, me, mine" mentality demonstrated by various Republican members of Congress.

With some in congress ready and willing to shut down the government in the name of their personal ideaologies, the Paoli-Thorndale line could end up as a collateral damage footnote.

Matthew Mitchell wrote:

Suburban Station wrote:SEPTA and PennDOT pay for most of the line as it is so it would be rash for Amtrak to cancel service.

It doesn't matter. If Amtrak has a marginal loss on the service or on operating the infrastructure for SEPTA, even one dollar, they'd shut it down.

even if there was a marginal loss (and we don't know that), this isn't true. they aren't going to shut it down for a dollar unless they are forced to. the point is, PennDOT and SEPTA pay for most of the service as is so it would be rash to cancel service without a proper analysis of costs. if you ask me, a rationalizing of amtrak/septa service and a little fare cooperation is long overdue...as is a renegotiation of septa's outdated contracts.
from septa's perspective, I'd guess trenton line trains would be more at risk....though it's hard to say since harrisburg has a more or less fixed cost (sans power) yet SEPTA pays a per mile fee.

Clearfield wrote:

Pres93 wrote:Messieurs Clearfield and Mitchell...I've ridden that line either from Downingtown or Thorndale for almost 19 years, so I have a vested interest in its continued existence.

I have a vested interest as well - I ride the Keystone to Lancaster weekly.

I'm concerned that prople will not take this seriously. Since Cynwyd branches off of the line, it is in danger as well.

The Keystone corridor would make one heck of a trail if WE let it happen.

cynwyd is probably more in danger since it is less essential

Bill R. wrote:I transitioned from talking about the potential impact, and the possible response, of the residents along the Main Line, to talking about the actions of the Congressional Republicans who are part of the same political party that many of the wealthy Main Line residents support. Essentially, Main Line residents are potentially being screwed by their own.

Bill, I think your generalization here is mistaken. The wealthier suburbs have been trending more and more Democratic recently: the state senator for Lower Merion is the very liberal Daylin Leach, and Andrew Dinniman (D) represents the outer Main Line.

Matthew Mitchell wrote:

Bill R. wrote:I transitioned from talking about the potential impact, and the possible response, of the residents along the Main Line, to talking about the actions of the Congressional Republicans who are part of the same political party that many of the wealthy Main Line residents support. Essentially, Main Line residents are potentially being screwed by their own.

Bill, I think your generalization here is mistaken. The wealthier suburbs have been trending more and more Democratic recently: the state senator for Lower Merion is the very liberal Daylin Leach, and Andrew Dinniman (D) represents the outer Main Line.

I don't know that it matters, wealthy chesco hasn't been particularly unfriendly to rail, neither has Republican gerlach. for many main liners, the train is part of life there (hence the name) and there's wide support, even when it was staunchly republican. at any rate, being of the same party isn't the same as voting for people who support something. this has been the republican problem at the national level in PA, it's moved away from PA sensibilities (not that Democrats are exactly on the money, we could all use fewer chaka fattahs in the world). provided there's a state solution to transportation (not a foregone conclusion) I wouldn't worry too much about the main line.

Suburban Station wrote:

Matthew Mitchell wrote:

Bill R. wrote:I transitioned from talking about the potential impact, and the possible response, of the residents along the Main Line, to talking about the actions of the Congressional Republicans who are part of the same political party that many of the wealthy Main Line residents support. Essentially, Main Line residents are potentially being screwed by their own.

Bill, I think your generalization here is mistaken. The wealthier suburbs have been trending more and more Democratic recently: the state senator for Lower Merion is the very liberal Daylin Leach, and Andrew Dinniman (D) represents the outer Main Line.

I don't know that it matters, wealthy chesco hasn't been particularly unfriendly to rail, neither has Republican gerlach. for many main liners, the train is part of life there (hence the name) and there's wide support, even when it was staunchly republican. at any rate, being of the same party isn't the same as voting for people who support something. this has been the republican problem at the national level in PA, it's moved away from PA sensibilities (not that Democrats are exactly on the money, we could all use fewer chaka fattahs in the world). provided there's a state solution to transportation (not a foregone conclusion) I wouldn't worry too much about the main line.

Yup. Even our republican governor has stated that fixing the transportation funding problem is one of his top priorities.

Tritransit Area wrote: Yup. Even our republican governor has stated that fixing the transportation funding problem is one of his top priorities.

Yes, unlike the Republican governor next door in Ohio (John Kasich) who decided to send millions in Federal funding back to DC because he is ideologically opposed to anything that runs on rails. That money would have gone for running trains between Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati, a "Buckeye Corridor" service. At least Corbett's not (forgive the pun) going that far off the rails and wants to address PA's troubles with transportation funding. Hope he's going to do much more than "just say it".

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:Funding for Paoli-Thorndale is not threatened per se unless Septa is having issues with money and funding. The funding that is being threatened is Amtrak's. Amtrak is already putting the word out to its employee's that things arent looking so good. Amtrak OWNS the railroad all the way to Harrisburg, and Amtrak employees STAFF the towers so if Amtrak has to cut or shut down, do you think there will really be employees to staff the towers on the line? NO. I doubt we will ever see Septa go to Harrisburg and part of the reason is because it is outside its service area. Why pay Septa to do it when Amtrak is handling the service just fine. With that said, this is where issues with the NEC and HBG line come into play. The threat and the fear is real. Many railroaders could very well be out of a job including myself and many passengers will be inconvienced. Will see what happens. I just hope this is all posturing by the Republicans and some kind of compromise can be made.

It is posturing by the Republicans. They will say we need to make sacrifices and that government spends way too much money like they always do (even well before our current economic quagmire). Truth is, this is legislature proposed by a few hard-right Republicans who did so because their puppetmasters in the oil industry (the Koch brothers) pulled their strings to get them to. This bill may make it out of committee. It might even make it to the House floor for a vote. But it won't pass. I believe supporters of this bill do not have the votes to get it passed, even in a Republican-majority House. And it almost certainly won't get through the Senate, where Democrats still hold the majority.

Bill R. wrote:

jb9152 wrote:Total non-sequitir

Let me make it very easy for you, jb9152.

I transitioned from talking about the potential impact, and the possible response, of the residents along the Main Line, to talking about the actions of the Congressional Republicans who are part of the same political party that many of the wealthy Main Line residents support. Essentially, Main Line residents are potentially being screwed by their own.

Perhaps I might have done a better job in making the transition by including a quote from Bob Clearfield's post. But the point to be made is that this type of funding policy reflects the "I, me, mine" mentality demonstrated by various Republican members of Congress.

Let me make it even easier for you. You posted a hack political shot (the "limo" remark), based upon your own biases, that has nothing whatsoever to do with the story. I'm only surprised you didn't use the "tea bagger" epithet. Your blanket assumption that "Main Line residents are potentially being screwed by their own" has nothing to do with the Tea Party movement (which I'm not a part of, by the way). The Tea Party demonstrators I've seen on the news would no more look comfortable in a limo than you or I would. Unless you have something more profound or informative to offer the story, I'd humbly request that you keep your blanket political assertions to yourself, or find a convenient political discussion board to foist them upon.

Here's a flyer from NARP I picked up at the Lancaster AMTRAK station yesterday.

Don't be in denial that there is a problem here.