P32AC-DM Dual-Mode Genesis Discussion (Empire Service)

Ahh the only place the P32s don't go are the LSL west of Albany and Canada. Cant really say never on nord of the boarder ehh I have had them on trains to Montreal. The biggest problem with the dual modes is there just isn't enough of them and they are constantly on the move. At any given time there could be a couple OOS for maintenance/federal inspections or sent off to get the new and improved paint scheme.

Cab cars you say? Im not going over grade crossings protected or otherwise at a buck ten, I would think most of us in Albany would agree on that one. Cabbage cars? They dont work well in the Empire tunnel. Push pull works well on week ends when there is not as much traffic but the idea of tying up a through station track in Penn for an hour or so during the week is pretty much a non starter. Late afternoon trains maybe. Plus one would have to look at how the equipment turns are you going to waste a cab car in the trail on a trip west to NFL?

Time for some ALB-NYP-BOS behind third-rail (or diesel/AC) Chargers! Locomotive always leads and nothing sits in NYP.

AMTK822401 wrote:

mtuandrew wrote:Time for some ALB-NYP-BOS behind third-rail (or diesel/AC) Chargers! Locomotive always leads and nothing sits in NYP.

NYS did an RFI for dual modes and no currently available design could meet NYSs desired weight. Their weight target is 286,000lbs, all estimates are significantly over, including the Charger's. http://www.highspeed-rail.org/Documents ... roval.docx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To be fair, that RFI was a long time ago. Siemens has no doubt has made some progress on the weight-for-performance tradeoffs in the years since. They weren't that far off the mark in their initial estimates, and now have a full-shipping revenue product in the Charger to work from instead of guesstimating from design schematics.

MPI's also probably out of the bidding game entirely since the HSP-46 has such a lemony-fresh smell to it that they've more or less abandoned the GEVO platform for any future product. Who knows what Bombardier has been up to with the company being in so much turmoil of late.

AMTK822401 wrote:

DutchRailnut wrote:Due to lack of parts even MN has no spares and is not in position to lend any units.
as for overhaul yes Amtrak has overhauled a few units inhouse.

I guess that would explain the rumors I've heard of 709 getting a new engine?

The shops in Albany have been doing this type of work for a few years now. The 706 was completely rebuilt in Albany from the trucks up. That was the one that burned up in Penn. Either the 701 or 702 was the first rebuild, a couple of weeks ago there was a flat bed with a new diesel engine around back and I havent seen the 709 in a bit, but then again I dont wander around the shop much.

getting engine blocks is not problem, getting the electronics cards new or repaired.

Yes!
FYI: Number of various GE Locomotives built for Amtrak:
P32-8WH 1990 20 B-B GE 7FDL-12 3,200 hp (2,390 kW)
P40DC 1992–1994 44 B-B GE 7FDL-16 4,000 hp (2,980 kW)
P32AC-DM 1995 50 B-B GE 7FDL-12 3,200 hp (2,390 kW)
P42DC 1999–2002 228 B-B GE 7FDL-16 4,250 hp (3.2 MW)
Note either 12 or 16 cylinders version of the GE 7FDL diesel locomotive, since 1990.

GE has been making locomotives with the 7FDL diesel since 1968:
Here's a list pf GE locomotives using the 7FDL diesel:
Universal Series
U23B 1968–77 481 B-B GE 7FDL-12 2,350 hp (1,750 kW)
U18B 1973–76 163 B-B GE 7FDL-8 1,800 hp (1,340 kW)
U15C 1972–1980 170 C-C GE 7FDL-8 1,160 kW (1,560 hp)
U17C 1973–1981 30 C-C GE 7FDL-8 1,700 hp (1,270 kW)
U18C 1976–1998 92 C-C GE 7FDL-8 1,950 hp (1,450 kW)
U20C 1995–2005 984 C-C GE 7FDL-8 2,150 hp (1,600 kW)
U20C1 1966 10 1C-C1 GE 7FDL-12 2,150 hp (1,600 kW)
Dash 7 Series
B23-7 1977–84 536 B-B GE 7FDL-12 2,250 hp (1,678 kW)
BQ23-7 1978–79 10 B-B GE 7FDL-12 2,250 hp (1,678 kW)
B30-7 1977–82 279 B-B GE 7FDL-16 3,000 hp (2,238 kW)
B30-7A 1980–82 58 B-B GE 7FDL-12 3,000 hp (2,238 kW)
B36-7 1980–85 230 B-B GE 7FDL-16 3,600 hp (2,685 kW)
C18-7i 1993 10 C-C GE 7FDL-8 1,800 hp (1,340 481+163kW)
C30-7 1976–85 1,087 C-C GE 7FDL-16 3,000 hp (2,238 kW)
C30-7A 1984–90 57 C-C GE 7FDL-12 3,000 hp (2,238 kW)
C36-7 1978–85 599 C-C GE 7FDL-16 3,600 hp (2,685 kW)
Dash 8 Series
Dash 8-32B (B32-8) 1984–89 49 B-B GE 7FDL-12 3,150 hp (2.3 MW)
Dash 8-36B (B36-8) 1982 1 B-B GE 7FDL-16 3,600 hp (2,685 kW)
Dash 8-39B (B39-8) 1984–88 143 B-B GE 7FDL-16 3,900 hp (2,910 kW)
Dash 8-40B (B40-8) 1988–89 151 B-B GE 7FDL-16 4,000 hp (2.9 MW)
Dash 8-40BW (B40-8W) 1990 83 B-B GE 7FDL-16 4,000 hp (2.9 MW)
Dash 8-32C (C32-8) 1984 10 C-C GE 7FDL-12 3,200 hp (2.3 MW)
Dash 8-36C (C36-8) 1983 1 C-C GE 7FDL-16 3,600 hp (2,680 kW)
Dash 8-39C (C39-8) 1983–87 162 C-C GE 7FDL-16 3,900 hp (2,910 kW)
Dash 8-40C (C40-8) 1983–87 585 C-C GE 7FDL-16 4,000 hp (2.9 MW)
Dash 8-40CM (C40-8M) 1990 84 C-C GE 7FDL-16 4,000 hp (2.9 MW)
Dash 8-40CW (C40-8W) 1990–94 875 C-C GE 7FDL-16 4,000 hp (2.9 MW)
Dash 8-41CW (C41-8W) 1993 27 C-C GE 7FDL-16 4,100 hp (3,060 kW)
Dash 8-44CW (C44-8W) 1993 53 C-C GE 7FDL-16 4,400 hp (3,280 kW)
Dash-8 BB40-8M 6 B-B+B-B GE 7FDL-16 4,100 hp (3,060 kW)
Dash 9 Series
Dash 9-40C 1995 125 C-C GE 7FDL-16 4,000 hp (2.9 MW)
Dash 9-40CW 1996–2004 1,090 C-C GE 7FDL-16 4,000 hp (2.9 MW)
Dash 9-44CW 1993–2004 2,494 C-C GE 7FDL-16 4,400 hp (3.2 MW)
C38EMi 2006 55 C-C GE 7FDL-16 3,800 hp (2,830 kW)
C38AChe 2005–2006 78 C-C GE 7FDL-16 3,800 hp (2,830 kW)
Dash 9-40BBW 1997–2006 141 B-B+B-B GE 7FDL-16 4,000 hp (2,980 kW)
AC Series
AC4400CW 1993–2004 2,598 C-C GE 7FDL-16 4,400 hp (3.2 MW)

Total freight locomotives built with a 7FDL diesel = 13,607
Total passenger locomotives built with a 7FDL diesel = 342
There shouldn't be any problems finding spare parts for a diesel with a production run so long.

Mr. Junkie, I know you do this stuff for a living and therefore you have standing around here as an "expert witness".

Making the NYP-ALB Empires bi-directional "for the duration" makes sense as such minimizes time to be at Penn and will not tie up what's left of the through tracks.

But you know better than I how many 7XX P-32's are available for service and it would seem that anything running North or West of ALB will require an engine change. Also the supply of 1XX P-42's is quite finite as well, and more will be needed in the ALB pool to replace the P-32's.

Short term, best way; but long term it seems like a waste of motive power.

While I'm sure there are Top Secret Eyes Only contingency plans in place for having Penn and the Tunnels "taken out", I'd think a reroute of Empires into NYG would be part of such. Changing shoes is the least of it; qualifying C&E's "doable".

Mr. Norman, as I learned in another thread, the Amtrak P32s are not allowed into GCT due to a lack of forward escape hatches, which are required for GCT operations. Doubtful that MNRR has enough spare Gennie power to provide lift for Amtrak, but would have to leave validation of that to Dutch or other MNRR insiders.

GCT simply has no more room to accommodate Amtrak on a daily basis, MN service has expanded but due to ESA construction the deadhead trains using the tunnels has expanded as well.
Even Amtrak runs more trains in Empire service than before the move to NYP.
anyone who thinks Amtrak can be diverted to GCT for longer term is seriously out of touch .

No doubt. It's all an academic exercise. Interesting stuff, and I'm guilty myself, but let's bring this back to P32 status and leave that discussion for the Trackwork thread.

Do the "cards" have outmoded/obsolete components that are no longer made??
Or has GE discontinued the parts all together?

About the only electrical/electronic parts on these locomotives different from the other 13,000 locomotives using the same diesel are the brushes for the D.C. Power for the third rail - and the inverters used to convert the DC power to AC. Newer inverters today use IGBT devices instead of SCR thyristers used a few decades ago. Old locomotives can be upgraded to using the newer power converters without a complete rebuilding of the locomotive from scratch.

ehh no, most of dash 8 series are DC locomotives the P32acdm has AC propulsion.
The circuit boards and other propulsion components are hard to get and right now both Amtrak and MN are robbing stuff of one unit to keep another unit on the road.

nothing is really compatible but trucks and car body even Air compressor is different than every Dash-8 (rotary/screw)

True, but there are almost 2,600 Dash 9 locomotives with AC motors. So there are plenty of parts around to run AC motors, it's just a matter of deciding to refurbish the old Dash 8 cards to Dash 9 cards. At some point, these locomotives will either be refurbished or replaced.

The "given" is the "cards" are unique to the P32DM ,are not the same cards used on freight power GE's.
And there're different enough so cards on the Amtrak units cannot be used on MN units,nor can the "cards"
on the MN P32DM's be used on Amtrak's units.

The MN/ConnDOT units were remanufactured at GE ERIE not that long ago.