• Housatonic Railroad Thread (Maybrook, Berkshire, Pittsfield)

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New England
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New England

Moderators: MEC407, NHN503

  by DutchRailnut
 
even for eminent domain the state would have to pay fair market value, which would have been close to agreement price.
but then state would have been 100% responsible for all maintenance.
  by J.D. Lang
 
Just a quick question. Has Mass. actually purchase the line? Is it a signed deal? I can see where the spending of 113 mil to bring it up to passenger standards is unreal and I'd be PO about that if I were as Mass. taxpayer but the purchase of the line by the state is a good move to hopefully preserve freight service and hold (tenant) Housatonic to accountability standards on maintaining the line. I wish CT. would purchase Boardmans to Danbury and the Maybrook to Derby Jct. and allow P&W to operate it.

J.L.
  by DutchRailnut
 
I thought the purchase was pending on if Ct were to join the project ?
  by F-line to Dudley via Park
 
J.D. Lang wrote:Just a quick question. Has Mass. actually purchase the line? Is it a signed deal? I can see where the spending of 113 mil to bring it up to passenger standards is unreal and I'd be PO about that if I were as Mass. taxpayer but the purchase of the line by the state is a good move to hopefully preserve freight service and hold (tenant) Housatonic to accountability standards on maintaining the line. I wish CT. would purchase Boardmans to Danbury and the Maybrook to Derby Jct. and allow P&W to operate it.

J.L.
The transaction is closed on the Housy sales of both the Berkshire Line and the abandoned Coltsville Industrial Track. MassDOT officially owns it all within their borders.
  by J.D. Lang
 
F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:
J.D. Lang wrote:Just a quick question. Has Mass. actually purchase the line? Is it a signed deal? I can see where the spending of 113 mil to bring it up to passenger standards is unreal and I'd be PO about that if I were as Mass. taxpayer but the purchase of the line by the state is a good move to hopefully preserve freight service and hold (tenant) Housatonic to accountability standards on maintaining the line. I wish CT. would purchase Boardmans to Danbury and the Maybrook to Derby Jct. and allow P&W to operate it.

J.L.
The transaction is closed on the Housy sales of both the Berkshire Line and the abandoned Coltsville Industrial Track. MassDOT officially owns it all within their borders.
Thanks for the clarification. J.L.
  by BandA
 
Is $113M the cost of the tracks or the entire project costs including rehab to passenger standards?
  by DutchRailnut
 
cost was 12 million for purchase, the 113 million is for upgrade to passenger standards which btw did not include signalization/PTC.
  by Greg Moore
 
DutchRailnut wrote:even for eminent domain the state would have to pay fair market value, which would have been close to agreement price.
but then state would have been 100% responsible for all maintenance.
And often eminent domain can be more expensive when you factor in the inevitable lawsuits.

Fact is, the HRRC needs adult supervision. Now it has a bit more than before.
  by NH2060
 
DutchRailnut wrote:cost was 12 million for purchase, the 113 million is for upgrade to passenger standards which btw did not include signalization/PTC.
And with the way things have been going @ the MBTA lately (along with new leadership on Beacon Hill in the form of Gov. Baker) we can pretty much forget about a penny more being spent on that proposal.
  by BandA
 
How much is required to bring the track up to class I so that HRRC doesn't derail :-D Can MA charge these fixes back against the purchase price? Wonder what the cost would have been at the bankruptcy auction...

The only scheduled passenger service over HRRC within the next 20 yrs will be Berkshire Scenic Railway Museum, or some type of local shuttle. Places in western & central MA need highway upgrades & bypasses way more than they need passenger railroads.

I don't think freight rail is something that Baker has given any thought or awareness to. $113M almost exactly balanced by population the couple billion Deval planned to spend in eastern MA.
  by F-line to Dudley via Park
 
Probably the same as what's itemized in the CT Rail Plan: $150M to the state line. Mind you...that's well-functioning, full state-of-repair Class 1 supporting stable business and interchange. Getting Berkshire Scenic back in motion and keeping it so the HRCC derailments hit the ballast instead of tipping over on their sides into a ditch or resting against building awnings is probably more like an $8-12M to-do list. And they probably baked that into their cost projections for the line purchase because of the Berkshire Scenic factor. They're aware the museum can't stay in business backstopped by just that Adams Branch RDC dinky and need to get back in operation on their home turf.

What it does allow is for grant applications to resume for such kinds of state-of-repair work. Along with the TIGER grants and whatnot both the feds and the states usually have a pot of money to pass around to the poorest shortlines for basic upkeep like crossing surfaces, some new ties, a little bit of rail, etc. Not much, and everybody waits their turn, but a regular drip out of the faucet. CDOT suspended all of its grant app filings for Housy a few years ago--stuff intended for that $150M maint backlog--because the railroad simply never installed the materials and would pocket the proceeds (why, yes, that's illegal!). I think the final straw was a gift of recycled ex- Metro North stick rail that was "misplaced"...i.e., snuck over the border into MA on their privately-owned track to duct-tape some derailment spots before they got nailed for a safety violation. Rather than waste their time litigatating over some old stick they were going to dispose of regardless, the state just quietly removed a bunch of grant filings, gave CNZR a bigger pile or rail and recycled concrete ties to play with, and basically advanced their 'containment' strategy for isolating HRCC. It's not just that Malloy's people don't support MA's passenger proposal...it's a wholly tactical 'carrier management' response to leave Colin Pease twisting in the wind.


That kind of shell game garbage stops now that MassDOT owns the entirety within its borders and joins with CDOT's ownership. Money and materials to be spent in Berkshire Scenic territory aren't going to disappear or make their way down to Brookfield (much less the nearly-inoperable Maybrook Line). And now CDOT has a vastly easier time policing its own borders. If they're supposed to install a new crossing surface in North Caanan using their public aid...it better be installed in North Caanan or substituted with due notice to a different CT location and then better be installed there. Said crossing surface is not going to magically appear in Lee instead or they get nailed by both CDOT and MassDOT in-tandem. And likewise they aren't taking a check from a scrap dealer in Berkshire County for a pile of donated CDOT stick. This is where the containment and enforcement mechanisms just got a whole lot better. HRCC was scamming both states for years at the ownership and jurisdictional break at the state line. They may be just as undeserving as they were before for investment, but basic upkeep for the common public good (i.e. fix derailment city, keep BSRM in business) can now resume with due diligence.

And with HRCC losing its primary leverage for that shell game CDOT's got them in a bigger vice grip for their last remaining private trackage. It's basically 1) wait them out until they're so insolvent they have no choice but to sell, and 2) un-muzzle P&W to start re-litigating the Maybrook if they need to be bullied into submission.



As for stabilizing the freight? You're basically counting on them going out of business first. The story of how this outfit came into being was that the freshly profitable B&M made its huge inroads into CT by purchasing hundreds of miles of Conrail lines in 1982...including the entire corridor from New Milford to North Adams (division post w/Conrail stayed at New Milford, which is why the CDOT/HRCC ownership break is there). And then the very next year Guilford swallows B&M, and the year after that they make a dramatic reverse-course and dump the entire corridor south of North Caanan. CDOT was in a desperate lurch because no one was interested in a landlocked 34 miles, so they gave an unusually permissive trackage rights agreement to the first outfit who showed up on their doorstep. Enter Housy, who ostensibly were founded as to provide passenger excursions (when was the last time one of those happened?) and service whatever scraps of freight they could find on the side, getting a virtually unbreakable lease on the CDOT trackage. They bought Danbury-New Milford from Conrail in '89 after Conrail had already placed that line OOS for years, and then Guilford...Guilforded the North Caanan-Pittsfield trackage and its thru connection on the P&NA to North Adams in '91. The ex-Guilford cronies who run HRCC bought that outright from their former colleagues and unified control of the Berkshire in '92.

During this whole acquisition span they reorganized the company into a parent holding company, "Housatonic Transportation Company", an operating subsidiary company, "Danbury Terminal Railroad", a land-owning subsidiary company just for the CT/NY private assets, "Maybrook Properties", and a land-owning subsidiary company, "Coltsville Terminal" (the one you see on all the STB filings for the MassDOT sale) for just the MA private assets. And you wonder why enforcement was such a futile exercise for the states. "Coltsville Terminal" has now been liquidated of its assets and placed into mothballs. One big part of the shell game is gone. "Maybrook Properties" no longer has any properties in New York state since the Beacon Line sale, and is now bottled-up in Connecticut as a Connecticut-only concern. DTRR still has as problematically ironclad an operating grip on both the CDOT trackage it leased in '84 and the stuff it just sold to MassDOT as before...but you see where this is all going. Maybrook Properties doesn't have the cover of its MA sister holding company anymore to play divide-and-conquer, and CDOT can pretty much just wink knowingly at P&W to start re-fighting the Maybrook Line battle to put the squeeze on them. It's inevitable they'll have to liquidate too. And then...you are just left with the parent and the operating subsidiary that runs the railroad. And no more games to play, no more scrap-running scams to run, except...run the railroad, or GTFO of town. We already have a pretty good idea which one they'll choose.

That's when the states go find some love-of-the-game shortline true believer in the mold of A.J. Beliveau of CNZR or John Delli Priscoli of Grafton & Upton (hell...it could literally be one of those two) to survey the wreckage for an opportunity right-sized to present needs (contiguous corridor, interchanges at both ends, "can't get there from here" truck congestion on US 7...check, check, check), bring in their skunkworks expertise, and roll up their sleeves making a disciplined go of it.


That's the out. We're not quite there yet. But the more boxed-in these whack-a-mole HRCC shell companies get the less potential there is for graft. Why else are they working the passenger angle so hard but for dwindling opportunities to launder state aid on the freight side? Knocking out Coltsville Terminal was the beginning of the end. Knocking out the last of Maybrook Properties (with coordinated aid from the P&W attack dog) is the middle of the end. The end of the end...well, we can't put a figure on how many more years that'll take. It could be molasses-slow in developing. But we more or less know what it'll be: no more graft potential = "I'm outta here."
  by J.D. Lang
 
Thanks F-Line for your in depth analysis. The whole thing that has irked me to no end was the passenger money play. What I think has been lost in all of this is that CT. should do what it can to preserve freight service in what I believe is a valuable and viable freight corridor. There is some important freight service that needs to be preserved and made dependable. The lumber reload in Hawleyville, garbage in Danbury, BD in Canaan, Specialty minerals in Canaan, Sheffield plastics to name a few. Reactivating the Maybrook from Danbury to Derby Jct. would also be in the state’s best interest as far as having a possible deadhead detour route for MN trains in case of problems on the NHL. Letting P&W run their stone trains on the Maybrook and with the Belle Dock in NH having tracks re laid to the terminals may provide a future source of traffic. A decently run corridor with class 2 track could bring in more possible freight to the Danbury area such as propane because many homes in this region have switched over from oil to propane. This winter has proven that suppliers do not have the capacity to supply the demands.

It is such a shame that this cat and mouse game between the HRRC and the state has to carry on this way. I believe preserving this corridor should be a high priority for the state DOT but they seem so enamored in the passenger side of things that I see they are not very interested in improving the viability of rail freight service in this part CT. as an alternative. There is nothing that I can see in the new 30 year plan that even mentions this. The longer that the state does nothing to help this situation the worse the service will get and if they ever do finally get around to owning everything what’s left may not be attractive enough to find someone willing to take on the service. There are many people around here that would love nothing better than to see a wild and scenic rail trail along the Housatonic River. The state DOT needs to re examine some of their priorities.

J.L.
  by DutchRailnut
 
It is not in best public interest to have state government subsidize private shippers, be it truck or rail.
it skews market and soon other modes want their subsidy.
  by F-line to Dudley via Park
 
J.D. Lang wrote:Thanks F-Line for your in depth analysis. The whole thing that has irked me to no end was the passenger money play. What I think has been lost in all of this is that CT. should do what it can to preserve freight service in what I believe is a valuable and viable freight corridor. There is some important freight service that needs to be preserved and made dependable. The lumber reload in Hawleyville, garbage in Danbury, BD in Canaan, Specialty minerals in Canaan, Sheffield plastics to name a few. Reactivating the Maybrook from Danbury to Derby Jct. would also be in the state’s best interest as far as having a possible deadhead detour route for MN trains in case of problems on the NHL. Letting P&W run their stone trains on the Maybrook and with the Belle Dock in NH having tracks re laid to the terminals may provide a future source of traffic. A decently run corridor with class 2 track could bring in more possible freight to the Danbury area such as propane because many homes in this region have switched over from oil to propane. This winter has proven that suppliers do not have the capacity to supply the demands.

It is such a shame that this cat and mouse game between the HRRC and the state has to carry on this way. I believe preserving this corridor should be a high priority for the state DOT but they seem so enamored in the passenger side of things that I see they are not very interested in improving the viability of rail freight service in this part CT. as an alternative. There is nothing that I can see in the new 30 year plan that even mentions this. The longer that the state does nothing to help this situation the worse the service will get and if they ever do finally get around to owning everything what’s left may not be attractive enough to find someone willing to take on the service. There are many people around here that would love nothing better than to see a wild and scenic rail trail along the Housatonic River. The state DOT needs to re examine some of their priorities.

J.L.
Don't forget Newtown transload, which HRCC pissed away by being absolutely obnoxious neighbors who didn't give a crap about safety. If P&W were running the show they would probably be able to bring something like that back into operation. If not Newtown (because I doubt the rich NIMBY's are ever going to trust a railroad again) then somewhere else. That's I-84 and US 7 trucking relief in a place where the traffic is just awful (and here's Malloy proposing to widen 84 between Exits 3-8 when it was already widened once in the late-80's), and the ability to deliver the goods cross-state. They really don't need to go fishing for a whole lot of online business if they can score a small transload anchor or some yard dropoffs (do they even have rights to more than a parking spot at Cedar Hill? If not then being able to drop anchor in Danbury is something that fills a need they sorely lack anywhere west of the mainline in Groton). There's stone business out there, and P&W hauls a hell of a lot of stone through the neighborhood. And just that little bit ends up being good enough for a profit at minimal expense, and a modest growth track for padding that profit. Class 1 crap track is good enough for the pretty short jog out of Derby where they've got more slots to play with vs. swimming against MNRR traffic to South Norwalk. You're not talking anything more than what they did to get the Valley Line in Wethersfield back to operable condition. Hell...P&W was willing to do the work itself if HRCC simply deducted the cost from their trackage rights fees. But HRCC wouldn't budge on the fees, HRCC promised them they'd get around to the repairs themselves...and HRCC lied through its teeth so it had to go through the STB. Derby-Danbury is arguably the most stable piece if you maneuver it to the right hands.


Berkshire's another matter. P&W has zilch to gain from it. I can't even see CSOR having any interest there if they--say--were to pick up PAS's rights out to Derby and get within an overhead rights agreement of their own shot to Danbury-north. All of those carriers already have far superior CSX interchanges and complete north-south corridors from Mass Pike-to-I-95. The 'potential', such that it is, from Berkshire Jct. to Pittsfield, is the kind of thing a CNZR-like mom-and-pop sets sights on as a fixer-upper. A public face like Beliveau or Priscoli who can sell the pants off the railroad and sell a coherent 'corridor' plan to the local Chambers of Commerce about how the company plans to make it self-sufficiently work...can run lean enough to eke a profit on basically donationware equipment, surplus rail hardware, the tiniest flecks of new online business, and their own guile...be good neighbors who punch above their weight with old-fashioned face-to-face customer service...and still have some modern ideas for growth like prioritizing transloads and yard-centric freight villages over the online biz that frankly isn't there, and working those interchanges hard (uptick CSX's revenue intake in Pittsfield and even even a don't-care colossus like Jacksonville will tip its hat and give credit where credit's due). You look at what G&U, for example, has been able to do just with a yard- + modern transload- centric business plan (I think they literally have ONE pre-existing online customer) and impressing the hell out of CSX at the interchange. Check that thread on New England Railfan...the earliest pages then skip ahead to now. Everybody thought Priscoli was barking insane in 2008 sinking $10M of his own money into that 98% dead operation, dead and four-fifths OOS corridor, fallen flag in the making. 5 years later he's making real honest-to-God profits, has a mainline that'll be end-to-end restored in a couple months with new territory CSX is outsourcing to them, and scoring one incremental but key tactical win after another getting that transload side built up. That's the model to look to here. It's been done in post-industrial CT recently; it's being done today. The Armory Branch and Griffins Secondary were out-of-service for years and years with both studied by Federal Inmate Rowland's asphalt-lined administration for more busway stupidity. A.J. worked 'em like a rented mule back to life. It doesn't take very much if you're smart and can run it right-sized enough where literally any +1 carload of new revenue anywhere is enough sustinence to pocket a profit and proceed one step forward to chasing the next +1 carload.

As long as the Berkshire Line has that much going for it...and it does...there will always be potential. It's just going to take a few more years to wait Housy out. They're not going to go quickly. The leverage is in the ability to outwait them. And that leverage looks quite a bit better than it did a few months ago now that they don't have shell companies and shell ownership in multiple states to play the con and everybody is starting to move on from this brief passenger distraction that was their best...last...snake oil pitch pitch.
  by J.D. Lang
 
I certainly do hope that the state will try and buy Boardman's to Danbury and the Maybrook to Derby and grant operating rights to P&W on the Maybrook. I still think that the Berkshire in its entirety is a valuable asset for someone. There are a lot of limestone loads originating from Canaan and Becton Dickerson has said that they are planning to expand their operations at Canaan. Transit time from the CSX interchange in Pittsfield has to be quicker allowing better car utilization. I would also think that transload facilities for propane, cement, flour or whatever could be brought into play in the New Milford to Danbury area. I do follow the G&U discussions on the NE forum and yes I agree there are some people who have the determination and smarts to make a go of it. I hope this will play out as soon as possible and the state will make a commitment on it. Their new 30 year plan doesn't give any indication that they have any interest in freight in western CT.

J.L.
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