• Farewell to PCC's on the Mattapan High-Speed Line?

  • Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.
Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

Moderators: sery2831, CRail

  by trolleyguy
 
I am probably not the only one who is thinking that the impending one-year shutdown of the Mattapan-Ashmont line (for the rebuilding of Ashmont Station) at the conclusion of 2005 may well turn out to be its abandonment, at least as far as operation of PCCs is concerned.

Why am I saying this? Because, unless I am very much mistaken, beginning in January, 2006, the PCC cars stored at Mattapan will be sitting ducks, unprotected from the elements and, most significantly, open targets for vandals and thieves. Again, unless I am mistaken, there will be no MBTA personnel on hand to protect these cars.

Moisture, dust and dirt will accumulate, condense on and corrode the electrical equipment beneath and inside the cars, quickly rendering it inoperable. Because these cars are stored outdoors, they MUST be run regularly to keep the elements at bay and maintain them in running condition.

One need only visit the Seashore Trolley Museum in Maine to see first-hand what happens to PCCs after they have stood outdoors, fully exposed to the elements, for long periods.

Unless the Mattapan yard area is completely fenced in, or posted with a 24-hour guard for the duration of the shutdown (how likely is the T to do either?), hooligans will have free access to the PCCs - and so what the weather doesn't destroy, vandals will.

For the above reasons, and more, the impending "one-year shutdown" of the Mattapan-Ashmont Line is likely to mark, instead, the end of the PCC era in Boston.

When the T's maintenance staff returns to Mattapan in a year (likely more than a year) from now and sees how badly deteriorated and vandalized their small fleet of PCCs has become, they will announce that the cars are beyond practical repair.

Therefore the T will have a ready excuse to continue their substitute bus service, which by then the public will have become fully accustomed to (think about what happened to the Arborway and Watertown lines).

This is my sober prediction. I very much hope that the "T" proves me wrong - but given the T's not-so-great track record with regard to its attitude toward rail service, and simply because I am looking at the hard realities, it is difficult for me to reach any other conclusion.

So, to one and all I say that it would be a very wise move indeed for you to get yourselves to Ashmont before the ringing-in of the New Year if you wish for one last time to savor the experience of riding a genuine Boston PCC on its home turf!

  by jwhite07
 
This has been discussed at length on the BostonTraction list at yahoogroups.com. A number of pundits have been comparing the situation to the "temporary" closure of the Arborway and Watertown lines and think this shutdown is yet another prelude to abandonment, and that the PCCs will suffer irreparable damage during the idle period.

However, I'll be the optimist here by pointing out a few things regarding the supposed "parallels" between the past and the present:

First, unlike Arborway and Watertown, the line is not being closed due to "car shortages". It's being closed for a major capital investment, and that happens somewhat frequently. Did anyone ever question the return of service to Lechmere when it was shut down?

Second, unlike Arborway and Watertown, there is sufficient political clout to force the MBTA to actually listen to what the populace in the area wants, and the populace overwhelmingly wants rail service on the Mattapan Line. Two major Green Line branches have been lost in the past 40 years, yet the Mattapan Line, which undoubtedly has the lightest daily ridership of any rail line in the system (and less than a bunch of bus routes as well) has continued to survive.

Third, it's not a street running line like Arborway and Watertown were. The MBTA and the City of Boston are well known for their hatred of street running.

Also, it's not like Mattapan will be an abandoned ghost town with ten streetcars sitting all alone and unprotected for a year, just waiting to "get it". Plenty of people will be around at all times - bus operations will continue as before (more frequent in fact), and I understand there is a plan for providing 24-hour security for the cars and even limited operation and maintenance of the "idle" fleet to ensure the cars will continue to work. I'm not saying that there is no potential for bad things to happen, but I just can't look at the situation and see it as a prelude to an end.

  by CS
 
I hope to god that they would move them somewhere else temporarily... it would just be a shame if that happened...

And while the line has small ridership numbers, it is usually packed... it not like these cars are half empty all of the time - they get pretty packed during rush hour....

  by Otto Vondrak
 
I visited Mattapan recently so I have to ask, what keeps the cars from being vandalized now? I noticed more than one car with a marker scrawl (apparently one PCC belongs to the Bloods. We waited for the Crypt car). I'm sure that the T will take precautions to keep these cars in good working order during the shutdown. They just spent a bunch of money on a rebuild, I dont think they want to throw that away.

-otto-

  by jwhite07
 
Well, Otto, the MBTA is no stranger to wasting money from time to time (witness the sudden closure of Arborway in 1987, which put a bunch of recently rebuilt PCCs and trackage out of work), but I still don't see it happening in this case.

As far as graffiti, well, it happens *everywhere* and in most cases, short of (and maybe even despite) having a Transit Police officer at every station and on every vehicle throughout the system, it'll still happen. It doesn't take more than a few seconds for someone to whip out a Sharpie and scrawl on the side of a car. It's the spraypainted "billboard" kind of graffiti that is most damaging, but can be prevented most easily. That sort of thing, while certainly not unknown to happen, is relatively rare.

  by Ron Newman
 
If this is really closing at the end of 2005, why isn't that information on the T web site? Is it possible the date has been delayed?

  by Otto Vondrak
 
I was looking for the official info on the T site for awhile. The only reason I heard about it at all was because I happened to meet a T planner on the Farewell to the FL9 trip in Connecticut in October who told me about the planned shutdown...

=otto=

  by F-line to Dudley via Park
 
The High Speed Line should still have a track connection to Codman Yard on the Red Line. The cars used to be towed through the Red Line tunnels to the old Eliot Shops at Harvard, and I think even after that closed they were routinely towed into Codman for repairs (Mattapan didn't even get its own weather-protected repair shed until the last rebuild). So if the track connection is still there the cars can be stored there safely behind the fencing at Codman, or even towed to Cabot if Codman doesn't have enough room. That's a much better solution than leaving them sitting ducks in Mattapan Yard during the shutdown.

I think it would be a good idea to rotate them all to Riverside for some light maintenance during the shutdown.


The M is DEFINITELY not being abandoned this shutdown. The T is sinking millions into rebuilding the Ashmont ramp to meet the weight standards of modern vehicles, and as that is the most expensive single part of making the line LRV-compatible (the others being new electrical substations and catanery, replacement track, and reinforcement of the small bridges) the T would not be doing that if they weren't going to bring the line immediately back (not to mention they just dropped a wad rehabbing all the cars). The danger to the M is more medium- and long-term with the car fleet. 10 cars is barely enough to cover existing service and not even enough to run multiple-car train rush hour service, and there are no replacement plans being kicked around yet. If they lose any cars before the PCC's life expectancy is over, then you've got an acute car shortage and all the worrisome implications that brings (given past history). But that's still a ways away. Mattapan will definitely be reactivated after the reconstruction at Ashmont.

Or, put it this way...if the T either drops the ramp reconstruction at the last second or decides to do permanent bustitution via BRT instead of reactivation they will get sued by so many more groups than are suing them over Arborway they wouldn't even think about pulling a fast one here.

  by Otto Vondrak
 
Can someone explain Mattapan operations to me? It seems three cars are in the circuit at any given time handling all service on the two-mile shuttle. How often do cars get subbed in and out of Mattapan yard? Are any of the ten cars OOS? I thought it was a fleet of 11...

...maybe we need to drag the picture window "excursion" PCC out of retirement.

-otto-

  by F-line to Dudley via Park
 
Otto Vondrak wrote:Can someone explain Mattapan operations to me? It seems three cars are in the circuit at any given time handling all service on the two-mile shuttle. How often do cars get subbed in and out of Mattapan yard? Are any of the ten cars OOS? I thought it was a fleet of 11...

...maybe we need to drag the picture window "excursion" PCC out of retirement.

-otto-
The 11th car had to be scrapped in the rebuild program because they found too much rust and corrosion. So the full fleet is 10, and all of them are rebuilds (no green ones left...they're all orange-and-creme). The active fleet is 9 because there's 1 car, 3230, still in the rebuild program at Riverside. NetTransit says it should've been back in active service Fall '05, so must be running a little behind-schedule.

  by jwhite07
 
As reported on another list, 3230 is still at Riverside because the MBTA is having a hard time finding a contract carrier with a lowboy trailer to transport it down to Mattapan. Hallamore was the preferred carrier, but they don't offer this kind of service anymore, and apparently whoever is transporting Type 7s and Type 8s between Littleton and Boston is charging a pretty steep price for those moves (which, I assume, is paid for through the contract between Breda and the MBTA). So until the MBTA can find a carrier that can do the move at a reasonable cost, they're keeping 3230 where it is. No hurry to make the move at this point anyway, since Mattapan will be temporarily shut down soon.

  by Ron Newman
 
The Winter 2006 Rapid Transit schedule, which I just picked up at Downtown Xing, does not mention any bustitution on the Mattapan Line.
  by aline1969
 
When I walked out of my work 28 State Street, I saw an MBTA truck and on the deck were two PCC trucks, the truck was headed north.

  by CS
 
jwhite07 wrote:As reported on another list, 3230 is still at Riverside because the MBTA is having a hard time finding a contract carrier with a lowboy trailer to transport it down to Mattapan. Hallamore was the preferred carrier, but they don't offer this kind of service anymore, and apparently whoever is transporting Type 7s and Type 8s between Littleton and Boston is charging a pretty steep price for those moves (which, I assume, is paid for through the contract between Breda and the MBTA). So until the MBTA can find a carrier that can do the move at a reasonable cost, they're keeping 3230 where it is. No hurry to make the move at this point anyway, since Mattapan will be temporarily shut down soon.
Thats good to know.
I thought that they were going to scrap 3230 - it's been in the rebuild program for about two years now or maybe even longer... weird.

  by Otto Vondrak
 
http://railroad.net/articles/railfannin ... ta-am4.jpg

http://railroad.net/articles/railfannin ... ta-mp5.jpg

3230 was in rough shape when I saw her in 2002. There were holes in the floor straight to the tracks.