East End Service: Greenport Scoot, Montauk Line, Etc.

thrdkilr

There is a demand for faster weekend service, no doubt. But the issue of consistent, more frequent rail transit between Greenport and Ronkonkoma is more important to full time residents who live on the East End, some of them working well to the west, others older - on fixed incomes or younger without the wheels necessary to get out of town.

I visualize the service moving people between the hamlets of Southold, Riverhead and west.

I would suggest a platform be built at the Tanger Outlet Center in Riverhead. This would generate revenue and ridership from west to east. In areas like Cutchogue and Jamesport, the Towns could be encouraged to use their little Senior Citizen buses as shuttles between the stations and the hamlet centers, stopping at the stations for P/U and drop offs in line with the train schedule.

I’m not kidding about the USPS contract. Yesterday, Officials did another ground breaking at the Riverhead Postal Complex located by the RR tracks at Rt. 25 and Mill Road. Currently, large trucks move the mail from east to west and back beginning at Orient Point and Shelter Island/Greenport to Riverhead’s Postal Annex. Imagine taking those trucks off the road and transferring the mailbags via the train. This would generate revenue as well.

As much as we think of fast rail service from NYC to the East End, it will be the day to day benefits of good transit service out east that will move this “plan” forward, politically, financially and emotionally.

de Don N2QHV

Mail by rail may be even more of a reason for a direct train from the north fork to NYC, even if it is just to Jamaica(or are you saying mail by rail only on the north fork).

Hi Jared,

At this time I'm only suggesting mail by rail on the North Fork as the new, bigger "Area Sorting Facility" is located in Riverhead, right beside the tracks - easy in/easy out. It receives all the mail from the North and South Forks, processes it and returns "local" mail to post offices within the "Area." Mail going to zip codes outside the area is shipped to a larger "Regional Facility" to the west. I don't know if the western sorting facility is on the mainline or not. It may be in Hicksville - not sure - anyone on the Board know??

The advantage would be to get a few more trucks off the congested North Fork roads, that's it.

de Don N2QHV

Part of te reason for the low ridership on the Ronk to Greenport part of the line is because of the shotty service. They make it impossible for anyone to be able to use the line. It's a chicken and egg scenario.
They claim low ridership, so they run crappy service. They run crappy service that is inconvenient to ride, so no one rides. Then it goes full circle...no one rides, so they claim low ridership, and run crappy service....

They should be running "Patchogue to Speonk"-like serivce between ROnkonkoma and Riverhead. The demand is there. Many people from points east drive all the way to Ronkonkoma. Medford exploded in population in the late 70's and 80's, Yaphank and Manorville in the 90's and now are undergoing population explosions. The Riverhead Outlet attracts thousands of people, and the rails run right next to it. It's time for them to acknowledge that it's not the 1950's along this line anymore.

They should run serivce between Riverhead and Ronk similarly to the way they run it between Patch and Speonk (hourly or so rush hours, and 2 to 2 1/2 hourly during the day). East of RIverhead like it's run east of Speonk.
They should reopen Manorville, and build a station at the Riverhead Outlet Center. This will be a perfect example of build it and they will come. If there was normal service on this line (instead of the joke they run now), ridership levels would rise exponentially.

I think the best thing the county can do is buy the ROW from MTA, pave it with asphalt and make it dedicated bus route. CNG powered buses, good for the enviroment, dedicated bus only could mean 70 mph, short time headways, and an extra way to get of the east end in the event of a cat 4 (or higher) hurricane.

Paul, i like the idea, but i think that will work well on the old CRRLI ROW.

.

RUBBER TIRES INSTEAD OF STEAL FLANGES?!?!?!?!!

{CRINGES....}

.

Think of the economics: the money made from scraping steel, no FRA regs to worry about, low cost of a single bus compared to the design and building of locomotives, cars, maintenance facilities, grade crossing protection, training of personel, can be used on any public road, maintained in existing facilties, need I say more? Bus drivers (like engineers) are easy to train (and replace), no conductors or trainman's union to deal with. Like I said...Scrap the mainline, pave it over with asphalt and make it a dedicated right of way for buses only.

Now I'm scared. Oh, and about CNG buses, they're crap. Just look at LIB. Their stuff's breakin down left and right, even the new 400 series buses. Still, I think the whole idea of paving rail over for bus......well......it's the 40's all over again, except this time, instead of trolleys, it's heavy rail.

I understand it'd be more economical, but if that were to happen, it may set a poor example for new projects, or even convert more railroads for buses.

I would love to see the Eastern end of the main be treated as a usefull rail line. the line is basacilly abandoned, between the 2 morning and 2 evening trains, and maby will see some NYA during the day but thats it.

What if someone whit the power to make real change, looked into the line, realise why it was put there, and build with what they have..
"work with what you got"

its not the 30 any more, and railtravel is not and mostlikely never be in its hayday again, but theres still a chance to build on whats been built and make the Long Island people realise that the New York State Highway system must under go extreme renovations, the syatem is dangorsly over crouded, many pple drive like asshole, and have no respect for other road users. and the road rules are pull over and ticket when ever ond who ever you want. witch if you ask me thats total bull$hit and is absolutly no way making the highways safer.

the LIRR has a potential and let the chang over to driving take it over in the '50/'60 like all other RR's but now its time to Reclame the ROWS and do out best to force people to use the train instead of a car to go places that are of some distance of their orgin.

I'm going to throw in my 2 cents here.

Historically, EVERY branch line or branch extension the LIRR abandoned has been a mistake, looking in retrospect, as the area(s) has/have built up in later years and a need was there for mass transportation.

Whitestone
Manhattan Beach (servicing Brooklyn: service and revenue lost to the trolleys and ELs/subways))
Port Jefferson to Wading River
Manorville to Eastport
Bridgehampton to Sag Harbor
The entire Central branch

To paraphrase a quote, those who do not follow history are doomed to repeat it.

I would hate for the railroad to abandon this branch, as well as the talk I've heard about abandoning the West Hempstead and Oyster Bay branches as well and later regret it.

Long Island IS NOT getting less crowded.

There is and will be a need for mass transportation. Maybe the areas east of Riverhead may not appear to need it now, but give it a few short years and everyone will be crying that the line should never have been abandoned.

If you pave the ROW over and designate it as bus-only, the buses will, eventually, have to hit the overcrowded LI roads.

I am, and will always be, a firm believer in train transportation to move the thousands.

I just don't think buses will cut it.

Of course, you can always do what cities such as Detroit and Tampa, etc. have done: get the trolley system going again! Turn the line east of Ronkonkoma into an interurban system!

Dave Keller

You are absolutely correct Dave. And it's not even like the better service isn't already needed east of Ronkonkoma "yet". It's definitely needed to at least Yaphank already, and has been since the 80's.

And yes, every abandonment the LIRR did was a terrible mistake, maybe not at the time, but certainly now in hindsight looking to the future.
The Wading River line is soarly needed, traffic is horrendous on Rt 347 and Rt25. It would have been such an asset had it been kept open. Luckily, the ROW is intact, unlike many of the others. It's unlikely that it would ever be reinstated, but it is at least possible, unlike many of the other lines.
The Central branch would have relieved the Babylon Branch, as well as the mainline. Levittown, etc would have benefied greatly from this line. If it had survived just a decade longer, it probably would have been saved. It's ironic that the city it built (Garden City) is the same city that now doesn't even allow frieght to use the remaining small portion left of this line.
The Whitestone line would have been a great asset to the subway system, if not the LIRR. It was offered to the TA at the time of abandonement, but they declined.
The Rockaway branch would have been great for central queens that has no access to the subway system. In this case the TA even had the line...they just ran out of money to convert the whole thing unfortunately.
Sag Harbor's traffic is a nightmare. What a great thing this would be if it had this little spur, even if just for peak tourism times.

WHAT!?!?!? Pave over the ROW?? CNG Buses?? Blasphemy!!Sacrilege! And from all people!! To paraphrase Willie S. ......ET TU PAUL!!

I know this is definately a pipe dream, but the whitestone can be resurected in some way. I know the actual former ROW is almost entirely built on, but they could build a rail line along the Whitestone Expressway and then down the CIP to Fort Totten maybe. It'd be pretty close to paralleling the former ROW. It would probably serve best as an extension of the 7 line.

Metro-North to Wassaic which is 82 miles out of Grand Central has around
twelve trains each way a day on weekdays. Wassaic is a tiny community as compared to Riverhead for example. Wassaic has at least four trains
in the rush hour that run right through to Grand Central.
Greenport is shown in an old timetable as being about 96 miles out of New
York with two shuttles Ronkonkoma with an extra round trip Riverhead.
This makes no sense and it is no wonder that no one is riding this line.
Wassaic has a non rush hour shuttle train about every two hours, it would
make sense if Greenport and Montauk for that matter too had like service
as there is not a big difference in the distance from New York.
A lot of money also went into the Harlem Line to Wassaic as it now has
C.T.C. and cab signals.
Why don't the people on the north fork of Long Island have better service?
I suspect that it might have something to do with political pull. People on
Long Island need to demand from their state that the service be much
improved.
I should not take a huge amount of additional equipment to improve the
service on these lines and it should be done.
I think this is a "no brainer".
Noel Weaver