Amtrak on the Florida East Coast FEC Jacksonville - Miami

The FACTS are that the Florida East Coast is a lot shoter mileage wise between Jacksonville and Miami and it is also in much
better shape than the present CSX route between Auburndale and West Palm Beach. Orlando can still have service via the
Star to/from either Miami, Tampa or Miami/Tampa. There are some large population centers on the east coast of our
state too including Daytona Beach, Melbourne and several others.
Disney is the big attraction for the Orlando area and those type of people are usually younger and with children and they are
more likely to use the excellent air service that is available in and out of Orlando. The east coast on the other hand
probably attracts more older people who often would prefer train travel and usually are not in a big, big hurry.
Even as the railroads stand today, the Florida East Coast probably has a much better physical plant than the CSX has with
track standards probably good for speeds of 90 MPH or maybe even more much of the way. It is equipped already with cab
signals and train control end to end as well as very heavy rail, solid ballast and concrete ties. I can't see the necessity of
much being done in this case except for some passenger facilities where the trains will be makeing station stops and the
necessity of making improvements to the track connection at West Palm Beach to enable the trains to switch to and from
the existing passenger line at West Palm to continue to Fort Lauderdale and Miami.
The cost should not be too high if they would just do it and not study it again at more high cost.
I actually think Amtrak's ridership figures would improve by using the FEC over the present route out of West Palm Beach
north for one of the existing two round trips. The sooner this happens, the better off we will all be.
Noel Weaver

I'm with you, Noel. I could then change my "home" station to Daytona Beach.

From what I've read, it looks like Amtrak on the FEC is actually likely to get funded -- at least the infrastructure works for it!

My question is, what train would run on that route? Amtrak simply does not have an extra trainset. Move the Silver Meteor? But what about the loss of Orlando traffic?

Probably the Meteor would run on the FEC and maybe they would put on a Miami - Jacksonville train as well. The Star would
continue to operate on its present route serving Tampa and Orlando.
I think a change of this nature would be a huge plus for both Amtrak and its Florida passengers.
Noel Weaver

I would suggest that Florida, given the right routes and schedules, could support a significant rail system. As has been noted, money is an issue there (money is an issue everywhere). Given Florida's odd transportation tax model, it is sometimes difficult to even run a train in specific counties. Both coasts of Florida have significant populations, as does the Orlando area. It certainly seems like an appropriate place for at least "higher speed" rail.

I agree with you. The highway lobby is so strong here that railroads do not have a chance for support at least at a state
level and maybe not even at a local level either.
I seem to think that the FEC proposal comes directly from Amtrak and they migh have their eye on stimulus funds to make
the moves that will be needed before regular passenger trains can again return to the Florida East Coast after a very long
time.
It doesn't take a lot of brains to know that the FEC has the superior north - south route in Florida by a long shot. It is a
tailor made corridor for a decent passenger operation.
Noel Weaver

FEC is a perfect choice to host Amtrak service with it's excellent track structure and straight route to Miami. Plus, the line is an absolute ghost town in daylight as FEC runs freight traffic primarily at night.
My big complaint is the potential draining of service from the rest of Florida. Amtrak will likely pull the Meteor off the CSX south of Beaver Street in Jax and run it on the FEC. That's fine except that's one fewer train for Orlando, Winter Haven (Lakeland) and Deland.
Also, as I've said before, CSX seems to get 4 Amtraks per day over that broken-down Auburndale sub just fine. Why does FEC need federal money for "track improvements" when they've already got the best tracks in the state? Let 'em spend the "stimulus" money on new stations...and maybe some advertising.

Danny Harmon
Tampa

Has anyone ever tried, you know, bribing the highway lobby? Or kicking them in on the deal as a nebulous "transit authority"? I mean, it's politics and money. There's lots of ways to make things go.

I don't know. It's kind of a good question as to whether they would cut one of the Orlando trains or not.
The Florida East Coast has two markets; a long distance tourist market, and a shorter up and down the coast
one. They might try running trains that do both, like the Carolina trains do. My bet is they would start with regional
trains that tie in with the existing long distance trains (if possible) and maybe add a long distance train if the
market proves out. I think a lot would depend upon how reliable the long distance trains are. Statistics, anyone?

I certainly agree Mr. Train Headquarters, that an intrastate passenger train system would have potential. Every year i "go down below", it just seems as if there is more traffic than before.

But "We the People of Florida" have clearly said "NO"; to what extent that "no" was influenced by air transport and auto rental interests, i know not. but I do know I'm at a loss to think of anyone who goes down without an auto; I know I don't.

In short, any reroute over the FEC would simply represent one Federally funded train in each direction per day; and if the Meteor gets whacked at such time Amtrak next faces budget cuts (I'm hardly saying that will be tommorow as Amtrak is enjoying quite favorable public perception and otherwise "hasn't had it so good" since Claytor was at the throttle) then whatever capital costs were incurred, and whatever revisions FEC made to their own operations to accommodate this passenger train, will all be for naught.

"Keep 'em where they are", and hope the operative statement does not become 'keep it where it is".

It makes tremendous sense to run daylight passenger trains over the FEC, but only trains that originate in Miami or Jacksonville.

I sincerely doubt that the FEC wants to deal with Silver Service trains that are running badly late due to delays on CSX trackage, but if Amtrak could run an additional intrastate daylight service between Jacksonville and Miami, it might just work.

I'm inclined to say that the Silver Service trains belong on CSX trackage and should stay there and that any expansion of passenger rail onto the FEC should be entirely intrastate.

They tried an intrastate service with the Tampa - Miami Silver Palm a few years back. Terribly unpopular. I doubt if there's much originating traffic in Jax headed to Miami or vice versa.
Plus, the CSX does pretty well getting Amtrak over the road on-time. The FEC surely could handle an occasional delay from a once-a-day Amtrak train. There ain't THAT much traffic out there on "The World's Greatest Shortline". )
Danny Harmon
Tampa

I'm surprised to learn, Mr. Harmon, that the Silver Palm "didn't do much". From my ride or two on it during 1983-84, I recall a reasonably well filled five car consist of four A-II's and an AmLounge.

Lest we note that the existing connection through the SW quadrant at Auburndale was paid for by the State. Therefore lest we not say that Florida has done nothing in support of intercity passenger trains - just not in a while.

I was told that Amtrak is maybe thinking extended "Palmetto" route from Savannah to Jax to Miami. Amtrak wants more Florida service because Fla is the highest ridership thanks to Silver Star/Silver Meteor helped skyrocket the long distance service to be the best ridership route in the america.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:I'm surprised to learn, Mr. Harmon, that the Silver Palm "didn't do much". From my ride or two on it during 1983-84, I recall a reasonably well filled five car consist of four A-II's and an AmLounge.

Lest we note that the existing connection through the SW quadrant at Auburndale was paid for by the State. Therefore lest we not say that Florida has done nothing in support of intercity passenger trains - just not in a while.

I don't think anything at Auburndale was paid for by the State of Florida. The connection eastbound/northbound existed
when the FEC strike took place in 1963 and was immediately put to use in the detour. It has been improved on with
interlocked switches and signals but that was most likely put up by the railroad and not the state.
As for the connection west to Tampa, that was put in and upgraded by CSX when they abandoned the line between
Auburndale and Coleman in order to accomondate through freight trains to/from Miami and Wildwood and present a
through freight train between Maimi and Waycross, GA uses that connection as does the Silver Star enroute Miami - Tampa.
As for a New York train running through on the FEC, the contract could contain language that a late train delivered to the
FEC at Jacksonville loses its slot in the event that a through freight train is affected. At the present time train 97 the
Meteor is scheduled to depart Jacksonville at 9:48 AM and there are no southbound trains scheduled on the Florida East
Coast anywhere near that hour. Based on schedules in effect in 1967 when they actually ran one train each way between
Jacksonville and North Miami, I think an arrival at West Palm Beach around 3:00 PM would be possible and this would cut
almost two hours off the schedule.
The same situation exists northbound with nothing to interfere with a departure from West Palm Beach at the present
scheduled time of 10:17 AM. Yes I am well aware that business is pretty slow right now but even when things were much
busier, there would not be much of anything in the way of these two trains. Not only would this make the operation far
more reliable so far as keeping to the schedule but it would shorte the running time by around two hours in both
directions.
I suspect there would be a big demand especially in season for both through coach and sleeping car space between the
north east and points on the east coast of Florida just like there was in years past when the FEC had a very heavy
passenger service.
I think Amtrak fully realizes that at least one round trip belongs on the east coast and I think there is a good chance that will
happen before too many more months pass.
Noel Weaver