Trolleys for Route 23

If route 23 goes back to trolley service, would SEPTA be using rebuilt Ex-Kansas City, PTC/SEPTA PCC trolleys? I found this what if picture at: http://www.phillytrolley.org/pcc-III.html.

Hey all. I just found this site today and was going to post about route 23.

Looks like another nail in the coffin for route 23 trolleys, as the track at 11th/snyder and 12/snyder got paved over sometime in the past couple days.

I'm new to Philadelphia, only been here about 5 months, but as far as I know the track was mostly intact till now.

There's stretches here and there over the long route 23 where the track is not fit for a rail vehicle, with little patches here and there of pave-overs.. but for some reason, there are sections being totally re-built

http://www.trainweb.org/phillynrhs/RPOTD080501.html

http://www.trainweb.org/phillynrhs/RPOTW080504.html

just like the 15 I think most of the line would need to be re-built if service was ever re-instituted

It's kind of boggling that they would simultaneously completely reconstruct the track in one spot, while completely pave it over in another. Are they just reconstructing it in that area to give it a quaint look? Or is it not a big deal to remove asphalt from trolley tracks?

seems like a lot of unnecessary expense for a "quaint look"

don't get me wrong, i think it's great, but it seems quite silly to put brand new rails (millions of $$ of taxpayer money) on a street that will never again run a streetcar

feek wrote:It's kind of boggling that they would simultaneously completely reconstruct the track in one spot, while completely pave it over in another. Are they just reconstructing it in that area to give it a quaint look?

What's going on is that areas where the tracks are in particularly bad shape and disrupting auto traffic (or generating sufficient complaints to city council offices) are getting paved over, but the regular state of affairs is that the street should have tracks its entire length. Since the Mount Airy segment of the street was being rebuilt from the ground up, or more precisely--from the underground utilities up, renewing the trackage was part of the job.

I hope with the gas prices they will see that more streetcars are better than buses and autos

tanoaj wrote:If route 23 goes back to trolley service, would SEPTA be using rebuilt Ex-Kansas City, PTC/SEPTA PCC trolleys? I found this what if picture at: http://www.phillytrolley.org/pcc-III.html.

Is that an actual photo, or a computer render?

Covering the tracks with asphalt is a great way to preserve the track. Uncovering it is pretty easy. There are asphalt covered tracks well preserved all over the city.

Trackseventeen wrote:

tanoaj wrote:If route 23 goes back to trolley service, would SEPTA be using rebuilt Ex-Kansas City, PTC/SEPTA PCC trolleys? I found this what if picture at: http://www.phillytrolley.org/pcc-III.html.

Is that an actual photo, or a computer render?

That's 2320 with a new number. That was when it was being displayed at the 12th-Arch Siding for the Hotheads at 1234 Market. Ironically enough, 2320 was the last car to use 11th and 12th because about a month later, the facing point at 12th and Bainbridge was taken out.

Okay, so it is a real picture of a real refurbished ex-KC car. Now, I want to know is it on the roster for rt. 15, or was it a prototype for the subsequent PCCII's. Where is this car now if it is not on the roster. Plus does anyone know if the PCCII ever ran in the subway either in revenue, fan trip, or pre assignment testing? It's a shame Brookville did such a poor job with these cars, SEPTA would have been better off doing the rebuilds in-house.

Trackseventeen wrote:Okay, so it is a real picture of a real refurbished ex-KC car. Now, I want to know is it on the roster for rt. 15, or was it a prototype for the subsequent PCCII's. Where is this car now if it is not on the roster. Plus does anyone know if the PCCII ever ran in the subway either in revenue, fan trip, or pre assignment testing? It's a shame Brookville did such a poor job with these cars, SEPTA would have been better off doing the rebuilds in-house.

That's a photoshop of 2320. I was there when 1234 was showing it off.

There is a restriction banning them from the subway (but why would you want something with a top speed of 28 down there?). Reasons: Roof clearances at 15th East (which is plausible), no roof light, no high beams, and no CBTC.

tanoaj wrote:If route 23 goes back to trolley service, would SEPTA be using rebuilt Ex-Kansas City, PTC/SEPTA PCC trolleys? I found this what if picture at: http://www.phillytrolley.org/pcc-III.html.

Besides the fact that there will never be trolley service again on Route 23, it would be difficult to do the same thing with the former Kansas City PCC's that were done with the 18 cars which became the PCC II's. SEPTA does not own the 10 Ex KC Cars mentioned in the photo caption, so SEPTA would have to purchase the cars then do the rebuilding. Given the nature of SEPTA and the generally poor financial state of most transit authorities, I doubt very seriously that this would be in the cards. And-- we don't know what condition those ten cars are in.

walt wrote:

tanoaj wrote:If route 23 goes back to trolley service, would SEPTA be using rebuilt Ex-Kansas City, PTC/SEPTA PCC trolleys? I found this what if picture at: http://www.phillytrolley.org/pcc-III.html.

Besides the fact that there will never be trolley service again on Route 23, it would be difficult to do the same thing with the former Kansas City PCC's that were done with the 18 cars which became the PCC II's. SEPTA does not own the 10 Ex KC Cars mentioned in the photo caption, so SEPTA would have to purchase the cars then do the rebuilding. Given the nature of SEPTA and the generally poor financial state of most transit authorities, I doubt very seriously that this would be in the cards. And-- we don't know what condition those ten cars are in.

Does SEPTA have any old PCCs still laying around or have they all been sold off?

PCC-II's have been in the tunnel (accidentally).