• Toms River Industrial Track!

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey

Moderator: David

  by Bracdude181
 
Yes it’s mainly due to the transloading potential. The Southern and Freehold have potential customers but even the largest ones would get maybe 10 cars per trip at most. If the transload terminal picks up some of the industries in the Lakewood industrial park we could see some heavy rail traffic on this line again.
  by JohnFromJersey
 
Bracdude181 wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:42 pm Yes it’s mainly due to the transloading potential. The Southern and Freehold have potential customers but even the largest ones would get maybe 10 cars per trip at most. If the transload terminal picks up some of the industries in the Lakewood industrial park we could see some heavy rail traffic on this line again.
That will require some heavy investment from most likely more than one party. How much do you expect it to bring carload wise?
  by R&DB
 
You are never going to get heavy rail traffic into the old Ciba site. Route 37 traffic precludes any rail movements across it between 5am and midnight. Transload facility? Heavy rail and truck traffic. The locals will never allow it. Route 37 is already a bad driving experience, a transload and rail traffic would only make it worse. I know, I live 1 long block from it.
  by Bracdude181
 
@JohnFromJersey If done right and with enough customers picked up, maybe 30-50 cars on some trains. (Depends on when customers want their stuff brought in.

@R&DB To my knowledge residents in the surrounding area are only opposed to a recent plan put forward by the mayor to bring passenger rail to Downtown Tom’s River and put up small skyscrapers around the station. Not sure how they would feel about a freight train. Obviously to keep traffic down it would have to be one train a day, and precautions will need to be taken should a train break down across Route 37.

As for truck traffic, if it’s going to the Lakewood industrial zone theirs two routes I see them taking.

Come out of the Ciba entrance on 37, turn right, go all the way to 70, then take 70 to the industrial zone. Or turn left and go to the parkway, then take that to Route 9 and go up that way.

Route 37 is so horrible because of the way it’s setup and the fact that nobody stays right. If the trucks stay right and let everyone else pass, problem mostly solved, and thankfully 98% of trucks I see on that road do just that.
  by CharlieL
 
So much blue sky and rainbows here, to say nothing of unicorn farts. Let's just hope we get traffic as far as Lakehurst again!
  by Bracdude181
 
@CharlieL Agreed. Was only saying what could be done. We need Lakehurst reopened first. Sadly I’ve been hearing the rumors that C&D will be backing out again and from what I’m hearing it’s entirely possible that this project will not happen now.
  by JohnFromJersey
 
R&DB wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:41 am You are never going to get heavy rail traffic into the old Ciba site. Route 37 traffic precludes any rail movements across it between 5am and midnight. Transload facility? Heavy rail and truck traffic. The locals will never allow it. Route 37 is already a bad driving experience, a transload and rail traffic would only make it worse. I know, I live 1 long block from it.
12-5AM could work honestly. A lot of the yards/intermodal facilities I've stayed near while traveling had the most trains between those hours. There's also already plenty of truck traffic on that route.

Let's also not forget that it wasn't terribly long ago that Ciba Geigy was still there and receiving frequent shipments. I'd also imagine it would depend how fast the train was going into Ciba-Geigy, which wouldn't be very fast since it would be at the tail end of the trip. Maybe if you get it to go 25-40 MPH somewhere, make the trackage inside the facility long and whatnot so it would have more time to stop, it could work.

@Bracdude181
I would like to see this proposal the mayor put through. How the hell would they even get to downtown Toms River? The place is super dense, you'd be lucky to get its terminus at the Park and Ride. I think the skyscrapers wouldn't be so bad. Toms River and Lakewood need to change their zoning laws so they allow high rises, there's no other realistic way they'll be able to stop/mitigate the exploding population.

Can you tell me who is telling you that C&D is thinking of backing out? I'm almost certain this deal they entered has locked them in.

@CharlieL
Perhaps something happening on the TRIT first would be the thing that gets service below Lakewood rolling. Right now, there really isn't any demand below Lakewood, besides the fabled sand trains. Until there's some sort of demand somewhere, that ain't happening.
  by Bracdude181
 
@JohnFromJersey The plan was on an online news article. I don’t remember what website it was. I think it was called Jersey Shore News or something. The comments were full of Tom’s River residents opposing the plan, with some using rather harsh words!

The rumors are coming from a number of sources including railfans, Conrail employees, and a few others who are involved in this line in one way or another. Although what you hear can depend on who you ask, the general consensus I’ve been hearing is that C&D wants out. I could be completely wrong on this, but after seeing what they are like I’m genuinely hoping that I’m not. We have had other companies besides C&D show interest in this line, but most who do just show up, do a survey, and leave. RBMN did that on the Southern several years back believe it or not!
  by JohnFromJersey
 
Bracdude181 wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:19 pm @JohnFromJersey The plan was on an online news article. I don’t remember what website it was. I think it was called Jersey Shore News or something. The comments were full of Tom’s River residents opposing the plan, with some using rather harsh words!

The rumors are coming from a number of sources including railfans, Conrail employees, and a few others who are involved in this line in one way or another. Although what you hear can depend on who you ask, the general consensus I’ve been hearing is that C&D wants out. I could be completely wrong on this, but after seeing what they are like I’m genuinely hoping that I’m not. We have had other companies besides C&D show interest in this line, but most who do just show up, do a survey, and leave. RBMN did that on the Southern several years back believe it or not!
Google is showing nothing when I try to search it up. How old is the article?

If they bail off the project, a new company most likely won't come into play for a while, if ever. At that rate, you'd see MOM happen before they reconnect FIT-SOUS.

If C&D happens to bail, hopefully it's after they do that very important project
  by CharlieL
 
Found several articles about Toms River redevelopment plans including a hi-rise apartment building, redevelopment of the rte 37 corridor, a Berkeley-Toms River-Lakewood-Lakehurst master plan and a rte 9 between Lakewood and Toms River plan. NONE of them mentioned rail. ALL of them sounded like "make your politicians rich" plans. NJDOT is involved in some way with planning for transportation needs which could be train or bus.
  by JohnFromJersey
 
CharlieL wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:11 pm Found several articles about Toms River redevelopment plans including a hi-rise apartment building, redevelopment of the rte 37 corridor, a Berkeley-Toms River-Lakewood-Lakehurst master plan and a rte 9 between Lakewood and Toms River plan. NONE of them mentioned rail. ALL of them sounded like "make your politicians rich" plans. NJDOT is involved in some way with planning for transportation needs which could be train or bus.
Could you post some links? Honestly, I'm not opposed to major development plans like that if they include transit in the plans, like improvements to the roads and/or railroads.

Most of the time by me in Howell, there's rarely any consideration for improvements/expansions of local infrastructure when they have major major plans.
  by Bracdude181
 
The article I was referring to is a year old and briefly mentioned the possibility of a train station at the Downtown Toms River bus station. I will have to look for it.

@JohnFromJersey Even without C&Ds project, don’t count out the possibility of things getting better just yet. I can’t say much but C&D isn’t the only one looking to take over or otherwise improve this line at the moment...
  by JohnFromJersey
 
Bracdude181 wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:29 pm The article I was referring to is a year old and briefly mentioned the possibility of a train station at the Downtown Toms River bus station. I will have to look for it.

@JohnFromJersey Even without C&Ds project, don’t count out the possibility of things getting better just yet. I can’t say much but C&D isn’t the only one looking to take over or otherwise improve this line at the moment...
Most likely, that bus station they are talking about is the Park and Ride

Name em, so we can do some research on the other potential operators
  by R&DB
 
CharlieL wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:37 am So much blue sky and rainbows here, to say nothing of unicorn farts. Let's just hope we get traffic as far as Lakehurst again!
Thank you Charlie. Route 37 is not what it was 30 years ago. The population has more than doubled and aged greatly. (myself included) The BASF (Ciba) site is no place for a transload. It would generate too much truck traffic.
  by Bracdude181
 
@R&DB Where else could it go then? There’s not much space or road infrastructure for it in Lakewood and no reason to put it anywhere south of Lakehurst where the trucks would have to go back in the opposite direction. Not to mention there’s nowhere to put it down there either without inevitably pissing off the Pinelands Commission.
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