To electrify or not to electrfy the Port Jefferson Branch

What is your consensus, should we electrify or not electrify the Port Jefferson branch? I vote yes becsue it will draw riders away from both the Ponkonkoma branch and the LIE. Plus, it opens up more service for growing Nassau County. What do you think?

when they did the electrification they should have done it to Kings Park instead of Huntington. after Kings Park is when the track starts to really twist and turn, and from what i've heard thats really what makes it hard to electrify.

What do you mean, "we"? Are you French? Of course you are going to say yes because you don't have to deal with high fares and high taxes on LI.



Do you know how much that will cost! It will cost millions, let me remind you the MTA is broke. Then power substations would have to be built. Thats not the problem. If every foot of every line becomes electrified, then what are the millions of dollars that were invested in 46 locomotives and however many C3's going to do, rot away in a yard somewhere?


What's next, a Monorail along Middle Country Road from smithtown to coram?

I have to agree with SeldenJrFireman. Sure it would nice to have it electrified, but with all of the money the LIRR has spent buying the DM/DE's and then having them repaired, PLUS the cost of the C3's, it's not worth it. Besides that, with East Side Access under way and the Main Line expansion up next, there is simply no money to throw toward electrification.

Definately no electrification atleast until they retire the DE/DMs.

SeldenJrFireman wrote:What's next, a Monorail along Middle Country Road from smithtown to coram?

Please don't give him ideas.

I agree that it would cost a fortune to electrify to Port Jefferson and now is
probably not the time to undertake the project.
Having said that, I think that the next major job so far as the LIRR is
concerned should be to electrify the entire line. The DM locomotives are
not as good as hoped and sooner or later, more equipment will be needed.
They would be able to run the entire line with MU equipment and a lesser
amount of equipment than at present for the same type of service.
I have not seen any case where a partial electrification was really the best
way to go. Not on the LIRR, not on the NJT and certainally not anywhere
else either.
It seems to me that with faster trains (possible with electric equipment) and more one seat rides that the ridership would improve considerably.
Again, I no longer live in New York State and I am not telling the people
who do that they should do it, only that eventually when it comes time to
do something, this is the line that they should do and all of it at once.
Noel Weaver

I say no, or at least not anytime soon. As pointed out above the cost is prohibitive given the MTA's alleged budget sitiuation. And even if the MTA found the money, the benefits would not justify spending it. Despite what you may read on this board, laying down 3rd rail does not mean better service, faster trains or more ridership. The PJ branch is single track, you could lay third rail to Spain, and it isn't going to matter because it's still single track, and some one is going to have to take a siding and wait there until some one else goes by its unavoidable and 3rd rail isn't going to change that. The current speed restrictions on the branch will not disapear with electrification. MUs are governed by the same laws of phyics as diesel. Wether your on a diesel or MU take a sharp curve too fast and your going on the ground. Third, people aren't going to flock to the branch so they can ride MUs, people just want to get were they are going, on time and safely, and they could care less what is powering their train.
Until the time comes whe the MTA can afford to double track, straighten some curves and electrify they should leave the branch alone.

Even if they don't electrify, they should atleast double track to Smithtown.

Electrifying the PT Jeff branch would be pointless. A priority would be to completely double track the Ronkonkoma branch from Farm to K.O. to allow a more frequent service to be provided. Tie that up with a third track between Divide and Queens, and you have money well spent. The problem is is that fares keep going up, service is lagging behind, and not much improvements are being made with the exception of the M-7 fleet. Money needs to be better spent, such as improving existing right-of-ways, better equipment, and making less idiotic descisions that have been common place on the RR over the past few years. Electrifying the PT Jeff branch east of Huntington will not be constructive for the most part of Island residents. The branch itself with sharp curves will not support higher speeds of 60 MPH in most places therefore making the use of MU's pointless.

The ONLY real benefit would be more one seat rides from PJ to NYP and Brooklyn. Unless the people want to pay $50 each way, they will have to change at Huntington or Hicksville. If they don't like that, no one is forcing them to live east of Huntington.

I dont think we need any more electric lines, we have enough, we need better locomotives. Get rid of the ugly mess we have now.

For practicality, electrification is probably the way to go. I hate it, but the point of the LIRR is to provide commuter service to an expanding number of residents. MU cars are a fact of life and practical, due to the "non-turning" issues, lack of pollution, simplicity, and capacity.

What I'd like is aesthetically pleasing, but not practical. I'd like steam locomotives and steel cars. I'd like FM's and ALCO's in original paintschemes. I'd like turntables and wyes at the ends of the lines. Unfortunately, that isn't going to improve capacity, timetables, numbers of trains, and numbers of riders.

What we must never have is abandonment or shortening of any tracked lines to any communities on the Island. Long Island is an entirely different place for what it was when I was a boy in the 50's. Then, it was all potato fields and housing developments springing up where afew farmers sold off their holdings. In the 60's and 70's, open property began to fall to urban sprawl, and rich "Yuppies" headed out to the east end, feasting on the last elegant land on the Island, and having "flash in the pan" celebrities as neighbors. It's only going to get more crowded and require more service. The LIRR is going to have to be there, operating at a loss, charging more, and retaining little of the appearence of the old company.

Eventually, expect to see EVERYTHING electrified, excepting the extremes of Greenport and Montauk. On those runs, expect to see something akin to those double-ended monstrosities that run today. The change is inevitable, but not enjoyable. I hate reality as much as anyone.

I don't think you'll ever see them retire DE/DM's. I have a feeling they will all retire themselves when they eventually break. So far they are doing just that!

tushykushy wrote:I don't think you'll ever see them retire DE/DM's. I have a feeling they will all retire themselves when they eventually break. So far they are doing just that!

I'm sure this has been hashed around on threads past, but surely there must have been successful dual-powered passenger locomotives in the past (in terms of reliability, speed, and power) - Indeed, from what I read the FL9s were pretty good (after they got the kinks out) - no reputation as Shop-queens like the DE/DMs; Also, I heard very little in regards to the Metro-North's Genesis IIs, which in transportation terms is very good (dull is good in transportation terms - you turn your ignition key, your car's engine starts, and you pull away - Very Good; OTOH, you turn your key, the battery dies or the engine smokes or coolant pours on the ground - not dull, but Very Bad).
Anyway, I think the more important capital projects would be third track on the Nassau mainline, and also the eventually Grade separation of this line (there's about 12 crossings involved, and while the NIMBYs will whine like anything it will eventually happen). This assumes that the ESA, which is more or less underway, will get finished (the downtown connection, eh, what a mismash thats becoming).