• Southcoast Rail

  • Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.
Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

Moderators: sery2831, CRail

  by mbrproductions
 
Let's see if work on Phase II starts after Phase I is completed, if a lot of time passes and still nothing has been done, then you know what's up.
  by BandA
 
Phase II, as presently defined, is completely irrational. Basically building a causeway for a single track, with electrification, above an existing former double-track row.
  by Commuterrail1050
 
I heard that phase 1 of this project is getting pushed back again to the fall for extensive testing.
  by R36 Combine Coach
 
Given typical delays in new construction and extensions nowadays, 2025 seems reasonable.
  by OldColony
 
BandA wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2024 4:59 pm Phase II, as presently defined, is completely irrational. Basically building a causeway for a single track, with electrification, above an existing former double-track row.
Phase I, as built, is equally irrational, yet here we are. A round-about route with crappy long transit times, limited service capacity due to the Braintree-Quincy-Savin Hill single track bottlenecks, eliminating commuter service to an existing station (Middleborough/Lakeville) by two large apartment complexes, and (BONUS!) screwing over any possibility of a Buzzards Bay commuter rail extension. But phase I was the politically expedient choice. yay. 💩💩💩
  by BandA
 
Nothing preventing service to Buzzards Bay; The new Middleborough station is at a Y junction so they would need to build a second platform in order to use the same station for both lines. At that point they would need to mothball the existing Middleborough station. Single seat service would be precluded unless they used DMU cars with non-standard coupling that would allow them to rapidly split/join trains. (Electrically coupled brakes + push button couplers I would imagine)
  by BandA
 
Perhaps the phase 1 rehab of the ? secondary from Taunton Junction to Middleborough could be reused or also used by an Amtrak Cape Codder.
  by wicked
 
There is not going to be any splitting/joining of trains. The T has never shown any appetite for that sort of thing.
  by R36 Combine Coach
 
I believe B&M did it under MBTA auspices with RDCs (MBTA subsidy starting Jan 1965). Even so, the agency
seemed to be anti-RDC, hence the rebuilding of them into coaches.

There are no off shelf AAR/FRA Class I DMUs at this time other than the UP Express (by a company that is no longer
participating in Buy America Act, as with Rotem), or the Stadler model.

Some lines, such Rockport/Newburyport and the southern lines with multiple branches seem fit for combined
and split DMUs.
  by mbrproductions
 
OldColony wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 6:36 pm
BandA wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2024 4:59 pm Phase II, as presently defined, is completely irrational. Basically building a causeway for a single track, with electrification, above an existing former double-track row.
Phase I, as built, is equally irrational, yet here we are. A round-about route with crappy long transit times, limited service capacity due to the Braintree-Quincy-Savin Hill single track bottlenecks, eliminating commuter service to an existing station (Middleborough/Lakeville) by two large apartment complexes, and (BONUS!) screwing over any possibility of a Buzzards Bay commuter rail extension. But phase I was the politically expedient choice. yay. 💩💩💩
You can thank the Easton and Raynham NIMBYs for practically ruining the entire project, as well as the Army Corps of Engineers
  by mbrproductions
 
Some lines, such Rockport/Newburyport and the southern lines with multiple branches seem fit for combined
and split DMUs.
Split trains aren't necessary if you have enough trackage on your mainlines to run a decent enough amount of trains to adequately serve each of those branches. Phase I of SCR will be the only line that will suffer from a lack of this.
God, I wish the state would just do something about the Quincy single track, such as making the City of Quincy narrow Newport Avenue and Burgin Parkway.
  by wicked
 
mbrproductions wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2024 11:22 am
Some lines, such Rockport/Newburyport and the southern lines with multiple branches seem fit for combined
and split DMUs.
Split trains aren't necessary if you have enough trackage on your mainlines to run a decent enough amount of trains to adequately serve each of those branches. Phase I of SCR will be the only line that will suffer from a lack of this.
God, I wish the state would just do something about the Quincy single track, such as making the City of Quincy narrow Newport Avenue and Burgin Parkway.
You still need to burrow through Quincy Square.

Newport Avenue between North Quincy and Wollaston could definitely benefit from a road diet, but then what do you do with the exit/entrance you just built for Wollaston?
  by R36 Combine Coach
 
Now I have to admit when the South Shore Line was built in the late 1960s, was it based on the same concept as
PATCO, running a 3-track ROW open cut through Haddonfield with the NJT (PRSL) only a single track with two rail
transit tracks? The same configuration applies in Quincy with the double track Red Line and single track
commuter rail.

PRSL and early NJDOT/NJT to 1981 had RDCs from Atlantic City, Cape May and Ocean City use the Lindenwold terminal, with a PATCO connection to Camden and Center City. Atlantic City service was suspended 1982-1989 but resembled with the same PATCO connection until NJT started running through service to 30 Street Station in April 1995. Was the South Shore also designed for this, with diesel passenger trains to points south connecting to Red Line at Quincy Center or Braintree instead of direct service to South Station?

Recall the South Shore was seen as a quasi-interurban when under development in the late 60s like PATCO, hence the No. 1 series 01500s being designed to run as single units for low density if need be and the interiors in a more suburban configuration.
  by mbrproductions
 
You still need to burrow through Quincy Square.
Would not be necessary if Burgin Parkway were to also be narrowed along with Newport Avenue. If these two roads were to be narrowed, the only significant issue left for double tracking all through Quincy would be the Quincy Adams garage, which would likely have to be torn down.
Newport Avenue between North Quincy and Wollaston could definitely benefit from a road diet, but then what do you do with the exit/entrance you just built for Wollaston?
Either move it further in with the narrowing of the road, or move it to the other side of the street as an underground passageway that goes under the road and into the station lobby.
Recall the South Shore was seen as a quasi-interurban when under development in the late 60s like PATCO, hence the No. 1 series 01500s being designed to run as single units for low density if need be and the interiors in a more suburban configuration.
Very interesting, thanks for sharing.
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