Sleeper Alternative: First-Class Airline-Style Fold Flat Sections

Three words:

Double Occupancy Roomette.

Other three words, no thank you.

I like my privacy and the Slumbercoaches were very popular. They had double rooms that could be used for double occupancy for those who don't mind.

Well Mr. F-40, I like my privacy too.

My last (not saying final, but I'm through going out of my way to ride, journey was #52(the day Kobe Bryant was killed) - and that was in a Bedroom.

With the rates they charge nowadays - and apparently get, I'm not about to take many more rides (I assure you I don't exactly live "RRTA check to RRTA check" in this life).

I think there'd be a very large demand and operational economies for this offering. To some points raised:
- lots of people (older esp.) would not relish climbing into the upper bunk of a roomette.
- Roomettes are fine, but I actually find them a little claustrophobic, especially with two people. (and I doubt all roomettes sell at double-occupancy). Many couples would probably opt for a pair of biz class airline pods, where you can both sit with legs extended, or stand up at night.
- while there may be anecdotal stories about motor unreliability, my anecdotal story is that I've never experienced a seat failure in many longhaul flights, nor heard of any failures in the cabin. And without the weight and volume restrictions of airliners, possibly unreliable components could be improved, if nec.
- Lots less work for attendants to do. No lowering/raising bed, no making/changing sheets and bedding. Just throw on a bagged blanket and pillow.
- Even with staggered seats, usually everyone gets to see out the window.

Night Owl would be perfect for this! Lots of biz travelers. Nice alternative to an expensive hotel in NEC cities. Would sell well, at a nice premium, for day or night use.

If Amtrak wanted to do a trial, there are sites selling the used pods:
https://www.skyart.com/aviation-furnitu ... ness-class

Mr. Rohr, I was in 3A on my overseas flights last month. I could see out and on my request Westward, the Attendant disabled the control over my darkened window on a United 787-10.

I don't see how the gal behind me in 4A could see out - as if she even cared to (I did talk with her). My Sister often goes down to Australia (gotta see my 1yo Grandchild) and she could care less about flightseeing. Another friend flew to Johannesburg in an "inner pod" (whatever Delta calls them) so she obviously also cared less about my favorite inflight pastime.

While your access to windows was assuredly better Mr. GBN, it appears UA 787-10 #4A still gets at least one porthole. I think that if Amtrak priced such a pod at 2.5x coach cost (i.e approx. 66% of a Roomette cost), it would net more revenue and be a very attractive option.

I flew about a million actual miles in business class seats twice a month over a nine year timeframe on oneworld affiliated airlines, and had exactly one broken seat on Iberia. Even that was partly voluntary - I was traveling with a co-worker and her seat was broken, and I swapped with her because I planned to work the entire MAD-BOS flight.

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Mr. Rohr, that is an "L" pod shown in the photo, or otherwise "First Officer". I like to play "Captain". from an "A" pod.

I further do not like it when a Westward flight is vectored over Greenland on a clear day, and I'm looking at terrain on which I've never set foot nor expect to in this life, and an Attendant "jumps me" to close the shade.

But, gang, our moderator will soon direct us over to www.airliners.net

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 2:02 pm Well Mr. F-40, I like my privacy too.

My last (not saying final, but I'm through going out of my way to ride, journey was #52(the day Kobe Bryant was killed) - and that was in a Bedroom.

With the rates they charge nowadays - and apparently get, I'm not about to take many more rides (I assure you I don't exactly live "RRTA check to RRTA check" in this life).

Yes sir, I agree about the prices. That was the beauty of the Slumbercoach, it was priced at only a few bucks more than coach. Although the bureaucrats nowadays will probably find an excuse to charge more.

rohr turbo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 3:24 pm While your access to windows was assuredly better Mr. GBN, it appears UA 787-10 #4A still gets at least one porthole.
I think that if Amtrak priced such a pod at 2.5x coach cost (i.e approx. 66% of a Roomette cost), it would net more revenue and be a very attractive option.

An Amfleet 1 coach has approximately 80 seats.
An Amfleet 2 coach has approximately 60 seats.
Half a Superliner top floor has 10 roomettes, an entire top floor would have 20 roomettes, With 2 seats potentially per roomette, there is a possibility of selling 40 seats. not bad for 4 seats abreast. Even at one seat sold per roomette, that is still 20 seats.
At best, using the same row spacing as a roomette, but with 3 seats abreast, you could have 30 seats in a lay flat seat.

Now lets compare your fare prices.
80 seats x 1 (unity) = 80
60 seats x 1 = 60
30 seats x 2.5 (your fare suggestion) = 75

Most roomettes fares are charged per accommodation (usually at least 4 time a coach seat) pus a coach seat for additional seat.
Therefore
single occupancy roomette would be 20 x 4 = 80
double occupancy would be (20 x 4) + 20 = 100
In either case, the roomette could make more money than a lay flat coach.

The only car type a lay flat car out earns is the Amfleet 2 coach.
Why do it if it looses money where you want to use it, on the NEC ?

I wonder how many sections would fit in a standard coach?

Could they retrofit Amfleets?

Well Sgt. Smith, don't mean to pre-empt Colonel Perkowski from his area of expertise, but the all section Pullman heavyweight had 14 of such. So did lightweight varietals such as UP's "Alpine--" and "my MILW's" Touralux (I actually did set foot on one of those when it was a camp car for an Extra Gang at Roundup, MT). The CZ operators did have a 16 Sec varietal, "Silver (trees)" on which they chopped down the size of the Boy's and Girl's Rooms. These cars became Coaches during the '60's.

Finally, and as a former MILW employee, may I be permitted to say that the Touralux cars were a dumb move. Why dilute your revenue from Standard Sleeping Cars with a car that offered no reduction (whoops, they didn't have carpets to clean) in operating costs or maximizing revenue space as did the 24-8 Budd Slumbercoaches?

All your points make sense. I think though that perception from the traveling public may be different.

Take the Night Owl. The one time I rode it it was fairly packed. Its market is business folk. But they don’t want to pony up for an expensive roomette for a short trip that’s essentially night hours only. But they might pay for an airline-style overnight first class experience that’s priced right so that they don’t have to sleep next to some drooling seatmate.

Convert a few Amfleets for this, and say add them as additional cars to lengthen the current consist and you could market that.

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 6:07 am All your points make sense. I think though that perception from the traveling public may be different.

Take the Night Owl. The one time I rode it it was fairly packed. Its market is business folk. But they don’t want to pony up for an expensive roomette for a short trip that’s essentially night hours only. But they might pay for an airline-style overnight first class experience that’s priced right so that they don’t have to sleep next to some drooling seatmate.

Convert a few Amfleets for this, and say add them as additional cars to lengthen the current consist and you could market that.

Here's the problem: The Night Owl as it is now is slated to be an Airo set.

Here's a solution: Build said biz-snoozer cars for a new DC-Boston only train line. Then who gives two hoots about Night Owl when you got this Twilight Shoreliner you can snooze in with some more privacy than in coach. Granted, you gotta wye the entire thing...

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 12:57 pm Here's the problem: The Night Owl as it is now is slated to be an Airo set.

Here's a solution: Build said biz-snoozer cars for a new DC-Boston only train line. Then who gives two hoots about Night Owl when you got this Twilight Shoreliner you can snooze in with some more privacy than in coach. Granted, you gotta wye the entire thing...

The new Airo train sets will have a cab car on the opposite end of the diesel locomotive and electric pan cars. No wyeing necessary. But it will have traditional 3 abreast business class seating. Amtrak would have to charge 1st class seating fares for a 3 abreast lay flat seating.
How many will wish to pay extra for a lay flat seat when a regular business class seats are available?
Why replace a simple mechanical seat with a motorized one?