Silver Star Downgrade and Diner Discussion

So in sorting through a fistful of receipts at end of November for my accountant, I found a few Amtrak cafe receipts. All were for specific dollar amounts and noted an Amex charge. I'll test this weekend by buying a few Yuenglings for cash.

Trains magazine reports that 41% to 53% of revenue on the top 5 of its long-distance trains by revenue is from sleeping cars.

So much for any thought of making them coach-only, although the article states that ridership could be higher if fares were lower, which could arise from having more sleeping car space available once new Viewliners are available.

SouthernRailway wrote:Trains magazine reports that 41% to 53% of revenue on the top 5 of its long-distance trains by revenue is from sleeping cars.

So much for any thought of making them coach-only, although the article states that ridership could be higher if fares were lower, which could arise from having more sleeping car space available once new Viewliners are available.

I do wonder whether Amtrak could source more sleepers, whether temporary (former Amtrak units presumably, rented from private owners or possibly VIA) or permanent (more options from CAF, whenever the V-II sleepers finally trickle out of their shops.)

That said, the score card still seems to be Sleeping Cars 1, Dining Cars 0.

SouthernRailway wrote:Trains magazine reports that 41% to 53% of revenue on the top 5 of its long-distance trains by revenue is from sleeping cars.

So much for any thought of making them coach-only, although the article states that ridership could be higher if fares were lower, which could arise from having more sleeping car space available once new Viewliners are available.

The question would be what % of costs are attributable to the sleepers. No use selling more $ 2 watermelons for $ 1. I suspect increasing the number of sleepers would decrease losses, but only if it increases revenue more than it increases costs.

David Benton wrote:

SouthernRailway wrote:Trains magazine reports that 41% to 53% of revenue on the top 5 of its long-distance trains by revenue is from sleeping cars.
So much for any thought of making them coach-only, although the article states that ridership could be higher if fares were lower, which could arise from having more sleeping car space available once new Viewliners are available.

The question would be what % of costs are attributable to the sleepers. No use selling more $ 2 watermelons for $ 1. I suspect increasing the number of sleepers would decrease losses, but only if it increases revenue more than it increases costs.

Some extra sleepers on the Star would make a good test.

For the other sleeper trains, which ones would you say could add sleepers without triggering the need to add dining capacity? Adding sleepers could be a win on diner trains so long as they are using slack diner capacity. Or certainly worth a test too.

Arlington wrote:[
Some extra sleepers on the Star would make a good test.

For the other sleeper trains, which ones would you say could add sleepers without triggering the need to add dining capacity? Adding sleepers could be a win on diner trains so long as they are using slack diner capacity. Or certainly worth a test too.

Additional sleepers on star will probably require another loco ? The SM is certainly handling all the sleeper sell outs fairly well 4 sleepers on some Thanksgiving SMs. Another on Cardinal of course good and LSLs. My somewhat favorite train the Crescent cannot justify more sleepers unless some way to make all but one cut off car(s) at ATL.

east point wrote:Additional sleepers on star will probably require another loco ? The SM is certainly handling all the sleeper sell outs fairly well 4 sleepers on some Thanksgiving SMs. Another on Cardinal of course good and LSLs. My somewhat favorite train the Crescent cannot justify more sleepers unless some way to make all but one cut off car(s) at ATL.

How many engines does the Silver Star use south of WAS at the moment? RailPictures.net is giving me recent results with both one and two locomotives.

Cutoff sleepers have been discussed a lot for the Crescent, here and officially. It seems to me that a (NYP)-WAS-ATL Regional offering some business-class seating would siphon off enough passengers who would have otherwise occupied a third sleeper on an NYP-ATL run but not further to NOL. (I bet a similar effect happens with the Palmetto and the Silvers.)

Star now usually just 1 loco.
All time rode Crescent south of Atlanta only 1 sleeper needed. Have not ridden during Mardi Gras times. So 4 sleepers NYP / WASH - ATL with one continuing seem plausible. Even more sleeper passengers might be found if passengers could board spot cars at Atlanta say at 1830 or 1900 no matter when it will arrive from south. If a diner was attached as well then might attract even more passengers ? ATL <> WASH was always a very good passenger run for SOU RR. Main reason SOU went to Amtrak was equipment was worn out ?

Arlington wrote:For the other sleeper trains, which ones would you say could add sleepers without triggering the need to add dining capacity? Adding sleepers could be a win on diner trains so long as they are using slack diner capacity. Or certainly worth a test too.

In theory, dining capacity can be expanded simply by longer service hours, and perhaps shifting some demand away from the prime dinner hour(s). In fact, the economics of the dining car practically beg for increased utilization (including by coach passengers).

Additional sleepers on star will probably require another loco ?

The Silver Star and Silver Meteor have both ran full ten or eleven car consists before with a single P-42 locomotive. A second engine was added only when there were RoadRailers on the rear.

SouthernRailway wrote:Trains magazine reports that 41% to 53% of revenue on the top 5 of its long-distance trains by revenue is from sleeping cars.

So much for any thought of making them coach-only, although the article states that ridership could be higher if fares were lower, which could arise from having more sleeping car space available once new Viewliners are available.

I'm pretty sure at least three of the top five are Superliner equipped trains (Empire Builder, Auto Train and Coast Starlight).

Regardless I think there's ample reason to believe that additional sleeper cars are going to be very good for the Florida trains.

OrangeGrove wrote: In theory, dining capacity can be expanded simply by longer service hours, and perhaps shifting some demand away from the prime dinner hour(s). In fact, the economics of the dining car practically beg for increased utilization (including by coach passengers).

Four possible solutions or combinations
1. Make reservations as done now with sleeper passengers first choice including any sleeper passengers in the lounge.
2. With heavy diner loads tell passengers they are limited to so many minutes after being served except for last serving. We know that is a problem but explain on some card the necessity to limit time and suggest retire to lounge after eating.
3. Add additional personnel to diner. This has the problem of what to do with surplus personnel during low load times ? Vacations and closer scheduling may cover some excess but not all. Maybe some positions could be part time to work high traffic seasons ? Any contract problems anyone know ?
4. Establish intermediate commissaries in conjunction with airline caterers. That will free up some seats needed for storage. Washington's commissary can help with intermediate catering. ATL and JAX may be needed on east coast LSL & Capitol probably not needed ? Western routes ? That is harder SAS, ABQ, DEN, & ???

Adding a second diner may be a solution. Have seen other posts saying it costs Amtrak $4.00 per mile to operate a passenger car. So does the Silvers & Crescent ~1380 miles x $4.00 = $5,520 be a better cost & solution than #1,2,4 ?

Pushing the option to eat in your room would help too.

For something like the LSL, I really don't think an additional sleeper will be an issue. Get most of the NYP folks fed before Albany and the Boston folks after Albany.

As for the Crescent, I've always seen it have plenty of room for the final seating.
I think we're a ways away from needing a 2nd diner on any train. (Except the Auto train that already has one).

Greg Moore wrote:For something like the LSL, I really don't think an additional sleeper will be an issue. Get most of the NYP folks fed before Albany and the Boston folks after Albany.

As for the Crescent, I've always seen it have plenty of room for the final seating.
I think we're a ways away from needing a 2nd diner on any train. (Except the Auto train that already has one).

I can recall the Silver Meteor once carrying two diners - but it was also part of a 17 car train. Today, it runs ten or eleven cars total. So yes, we have a ways to go.

OrangeGrove wrote: I can recall the Silver Meteor once carrying two diners - but it was also part of a 17 car train. Today, it runs ten or eleven cars total. So yes, we have a ways to go.

12 today, as seen on the Ashland, VA railcam, with 6 coaches as it had when I caught it passing Princeton Junction earlier in the fall.