Request For Expression Interest for Lease of Passenger Car Coach

Rehabbing cars and procurement of any equipment (new or used) will most likely require "consultants" to inform management on how to proceed. This of course, will take money and time. Perhaps MACTRAXX can start his own consulting company.

More than a decade ago there were funds in the budget to purchase replacement engines for the MP15's. They would have been identical to what Metro North purchased at that time, but methinks "Marge" Williams and her management team passed on this.

I think something worthwhile to mention when discussing this in the context of the next car purchase round is that they're still planning like, 30 or so M9-platform locomotive-hauled coaches as part of the option orders, iirc.

ConstanceR46 wrote:I think something worthwhile to mention when discussing this in the context of the next car purchase round is that they're still planning like, 30 or so M9-platform locomotive-hauled coaches as part of the option orders, iirc.

Aren’t those supposed to be “singlet” MU trailers for use in between two M9 pairs? I don’t see them being repurposed as diesel coaches unless the LIRR were to use them as such on the Oyster Bay and Greenport trains with perhaps BL20GH type locomotives in a push/pull or top-and-tail configuration.

https://www.transit.dot.gov/sites/fta.d ... h-2020.pdf

"In September 2018, LIRR terminated its first M-9A procurement effort in order to issue a new
two-step RFP which added the following additional scope to the original M-9A procurement:
Locomotive Hauled Married Pair (LHMP)"

These are definitely designed to be coaches, not trailers.

This brings up the possibility that this could be preparation for them pulling the trigger on this order - i guess getting a head-start on operational training on single-level passenger equipment while also mitigating the capacity crisis. Or this could be a lease-to-buy option in lieu of that, but i'm not sure how much free passenger equipment is hanging around, except, of course, the MARCs

4behind2 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 10:59 am Rehabbing cars and procurement of any equipment (new or used) will most likely require "consultants" to inform management on how to proceed. This of course, will take money and time. Perhaps MACTRAXX can start his own consulting company.

More than a decade ago there were funds in the budget to purchase replacement engines for the MP15's. They would have been identical to what Metro North purchased at that time, but methinks "Marge" Williams and her management team passed on this.

4/2: 1-I understand the sarcasm that you use in your suggestion...I have never been a LIRR "Insider"...
As for political connections - I won't even go there disdaining those type of "hacks"...
Without either actual chances of being a "Consultant" or even a confidant is at absolute zero...
I just would like the LIRR to be successful as most if not all LIRR Forum members do...

2-I never knew that the LIRR was even considering the purchase of Brookville BL20 locomotives...
Taking note to how MNCR has used BL20s in branch train service they may have been a good fit for the
LIRR such as the Ronkonkoma-Greenport Scoot and South Fork Commuter Connection trains as well
as successors to the MP15s...MACTRAXX

ConstanceR46 wrote:https://www.transit.dot.gov/sites/fta.d ... h-2020.pdf

"In September 2018, LIRR terminated its first M-9A procurement effort in order to issue a new
two-step RFP which added the following additional scope to the original M-9A procurement:
Locomotive Hauled Married Pair (LHMP)"

These are definitely designed to be coaches, not trailers.

This brings up the possibility that this could be preparation for them pulling the trigger on this order - i guess getting a head-start on operational training on single-level passenger equipment while also mitigating the capacity crisis. Or this could be a lease-to-buy option in lieu of that, but i'm not sure how much free passenger equipment is hanging around, except, of course, the MARCs

I stand corrected. Very interesting proposal! The M-7/M-9 design would make for an excellent coach car (perhaps if the Waterbury Branch was all high level platforms ConnDOT would have bought those instead of those pricey Adessia cars). Though since the document is from 4 years ago it’s anyone’s guess if it comes to pass. Sounds like they’d be semipermanently coupled together like some of the Siemens Venture cars with a standard coupler at each end of the 2 car sets.

MACTRAXX wrote:2-I never knew that the LIRR was even considering the purchase of Brookville BL20 locomotives...
Taking note to how MNCR has used BL20s in branch train service they may have been a good fit for the
LIRR such as the Ronkonkoma-Greenport Scoot and South Fork Commuter Connection trains as well
as successors to the MP15s...MACTRAXX

They haven’t I was throwing that out as a hypothetical. Though seeing as they’ve been planning to buy between 60 to 65 Chargers that’s likely what we’ll see being used on those routes. Even if it’s just a single engine + 2-4 cars pinging back and forth with no through service.

MACTRAXX wrote:NH - The C3 cars have luggage storage space underneath almost ALL seats - these cars were built with
seats that are mounted "cantilever" horizontally into the side wall opening up floor space below...
I have shown other riders this storage option at least a few times...I've used it myself...

The problem is (and this is why I rag on the C-3s in Hamptons summer service) is that this is assuming that all passengers riding the trains during the summer season to/from the East End are bringing luggage that can fit under the seats. Have you seen the suitcases, etc. some of these people bring? In some cases *multiple* bags? Yes, plenty of riders bring just a shoulder bag, duffel bag, etc. along with an additional carry-on (which for say a weekend *should* be enough, but I digress), but when more than enough passengers bring BIG pieces luggage that creates a capacity problem. Because then the luggage eats into the seating space and can impact the aisle space too. News reports from several years back (2016?) showed passengers riding on the floor from NYP to Montauk due to lack of capacity.


A number of years ago I myself rode the Montauk Branch a couple times a year with a reasonable sized “wheelie bag”. I never tried to fit it under the seats so I would just either keep it upright in the seat next to me (I never took the train at peak times so I could get away with it) or maybe on the floor under my feet. I did spot the cubicles at the ends of the cars but those hold relatively very few suitcases. (As a side note: I was able to fit the same wheelie bag from 15-20 years ago under the seats in the Metrolink Rotem cars (and I think the BBD cars too) when I was in California this past fall.)


At the end of the day the C-3s were meant to haul mostly commuters with work bags. They were NEVER meant to haul large amounts of vacationers with big bags (I suspect this is one reason why the Hampton Jitney buses do so well in spite of traffic delays on the NYC roads and the L.I.E.). That being said I’m not advocating for a captive “Hamptons fleet” that would only reach its full potential from Memorial Day to Columbus Day. That would be stupid

NH2060 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 2:13 am It wouldn’t surprise me that the M8s being rolled out on SLE only finally happened (after how many years of delays) due to the 3 year lease extension on the MBBs coming to an end and they didn’t want to get caught off guard like they did in late 2017/early 2018 when ConnDOT was scrambling for anything to run on the Hartford Line. Maybe there was a clause that stated the T could reclaim the coaches at anytime if they desperately needed them?

There is a little discussed delivery of new M8s in 2021/2022. Plus, remember, it was quite hidden from public until the end (revenue service), that a girder bridge on SLE, with beams that stick above the trackbed, knocks off 3rd rail shoes, so the shoe-less M8 SLE fleet is captive to SLE, and in theory New Canaan line. The MBBs had to go away the moment the M8 option comes, only other choice would be to delay/suspend/cancel the M8 option, to prevent a Human Interest story on TV News for brand new idle cars.

NH2060 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 2:13 am Perhaps the LIRR is seriously considering piggybacking on the ConnDOT Adessia order and wants to evaluate the overall merits of bilevel vs single level cars one last time before making a decision.

MTA announced suspension of all capital funding procurement, ADA projects is probably the only exception https://www.crainsnewyork.com/transport ... on-pricing

Leasing cars would be ops, not capital.

Any thoughts of the LIRR using the California Gallery Cars as a stop gap measure?

EH - Two main reasons that the LIRR can not use Caltrain (or METRA) gallery cars as is are:
1-Height restrictions being too tall for clearances specifically around the western portions of the LIRR
2-Built for low-level platform use only...They could be retrofitted with traps in the door areas depending
on what the added cost could be to resemble the Metra Electric (and South Shore) gallery MU cars...

I will add examples such as the MBTA and MARC (Kawasaki) bilevel cars would not work for the LIRR -
They are both the same height - one foot taller than the C3 cars - and will not clear as example the
overhead wire inside the East River tunnels leading to Penn Station...and again other clearances in
or around the western areas of the LIRR...

Hopefully the LIRR is able to lease outside passenger cars for the prime East End 2025 season...
MACTRAXX

I was thinking LIC, Jamaica western terminals. How much would it cost to cover the traps? They are not from rock salt country, how well have they been maintained?
The amount of people with luggage et al is considerable, how do we address it? Thoughts on baggage car service from LIC and Jamaica to HUNT, KO and Babylon.
The LIRR is not the Commuter railroad of past, its more of a 7/11 service with baggage. As an aside a NYCTA employee was giving hosannas to a poor guy lugging a large electric bike up the stairs at Whitehall St due to no elevator. Meaning Dashing Dan is not the customer base.

Very few people are making new baggage cars. This also introduces a new problem into the workflow of the switchers - you don't just have to make sure a cab is on the end, you have to make sure a baggage is facing the engine. No commuter service has offered baggage service in a long, long, long time.

Galleries, by default, cannot work with high platforms. LIRR picked their poison in the 1990s. Any stop-gap fleet would have to be high-platform-capable, or more likely high-only. I forsee the LIRR probably leasing, for example, what MBTA or NJT cars are displaced by the newest bilevel orders than anything farther west.

Installing traps on a gallery car isn't rocket science. Just be sure to duck when exiting... the remaining door clearance is a head banger.

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The other problem is could they clear the platforms at Jamaica?